Why is the latest BSA uniform so traditional?

[Wilton125]

There are lot's of threads about the BSA uniform.

 

The current centennial uniform was redesigned for the 100th anniversary of Scouting in the United States. It is definitely an evolution from the Oscar de la Renta (ODL) uniform introduced in the early 1980s.

 

But is it the right uniform for Scouting as we begin our second century as a movement in the US?

 

The Scout uniforms in both the UK http://shop.scouts.org.uk/c-193-uniforms.aspx

and Scouts Canada http://www.scouts.ca/uniform/uniform.html

have also evolved. These uniform seem to me more youth friendly and less traditional in design. Yet these uniforms are clearly Scout uniforms. Perhaps the recognition factor is improved because both Scouts UK and Scouts Canada have retained the neckerchief.

 

So why are the new BSA Centennial uniforms so conservative in its styling?

 

Were the new Centennial uniforms designed with input of our Scouts or by a group of middle-aged, paid "professionals" in Texas?

 

If YOU could change and/or improve the current Centennial Uniform, what would YOU suggest? Just imagine if BSA National asked this question of our Scouts and leaders!

 

I welcome your thoughts and comments.

 

[Wilton125]

Last year at summer camp, I met a Scout who had spent time in Australia in Scouts before returning to the US. He was wearing an Australian Scout uniform shirt that was definitely eye catching as well as comfortable.

 

Here is an example of how the Scout uniform has evolved in Australia:

 

http://www.scoutsqld.com.au/index.cfm?MenuID=210

 

It is definitely a much more youth-friendly approach to uniforms.

 

[blw2]

I think it's interesting that the photos in both of those sites don't show much by the way of insignia or patches on the uniforms. Clicking around in the Canadian site, I see that they use them. Why aren't they shown?

 

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with "traditional".

I guess I'm a stuffy middle aged conservative.....

But based on the pride my 6 year old shows when he wears his Tiger Uniform, he doesn't see anything wrong with it either!

 

I think scouting will loose much of it's appeal if it goes the way of nonconformity, or by the same token, to "less traditional" uniforms without way to show individualism in accomplishment.

 

 

[blw2]

Iteresting 2nd post by Winton while I was typing....

That Austrailian uniform is close to what I have imagined for what many call a 'Class B' or activity shirt. (Isuppose the Canadian and British versions are too, but I just didn't see them with any flag, district, rank, or award indicators....)

I don't like it for a replacement of the more traditional, but worn complete with similarly styled uniform pants, hats, etc... I very much like taht Austrailian uniform as a casual version for activities and outings!

Call it an activity uniform & I'm all for it!

[DLChris71]

Let's be honest. The official uniform is mainly worn at official functions and appears to have a certain utility to it. Now would I necessarily wear the official scout uniform in a high adventure situation, or is it? I don't really see it that much anymore. Do a google image search of scouts camping or scouts at philmont. Now if you discount the old photos and the staged photos and only look at those pictures involved in outings you won't see much in the way of the official uniform.

 

So the official uniform has a faux utility to it. In reality, in an actual scouting situation, not a troop meeting or local service project the uniform is not useful. So if they were to change the uniform to something that was actually useful, had utility to it besides holding patches, then I would certainly invest in it.

 

However even at that the official BSA uniform is leaps better than UK and Canada Scouting uniforms and I'm likely biased in that.

[perdidochas]

Besides the patches (unit number, etc.) and the reversal of color scheme, there is no significant difference between the Canadian Scouts and ours. The British scouts just had shirts, nothing scoutlike. I think ours is just fine. I think our pants are actually less traditional than either of the international groups.

[qwazse]

I'm a fan of the BSA pre-ODL uni's. Maybe that's because the boys who I've seen wearing them stand out and look very sharp.

 

I like the ODL's epaulet simplicity for distinguishing cubs vs. boys, but think we botched it by insisting that Exploring and Venturing use green shirts. I would rather have tan/khaki shirts for all and go nuts with epaulet's of a color for each program area. -- Similar to the Scouts Queensland shoulder colors, but more translatable and mixable. -- For example a youth multiple of crew and troop, could order a half-green and half-red epaulets. A venturing officer in unit/council/area roles could have 1/3 green, 1/3 silver, 1/3 yellow epaulets!

 

But my pie-in-the-sky wish is that scout shop would sell uniform fabric, and the pattern for the uni as part of the BSHB. (Size-specific patterns could be sold at the shop.) IMHO, the uni- should be something that could be made by a resourceful mom or youth with access to a place like these forums for "tips and tricks" to tailor it for a unit's specific needs.

[Cito]

qwazse, I have a hard enough time getting people to just sew on a patch, let alone a whole uniform, but I'd like to see what you've come up with.

 

When I worked at Philmont in leadership we wore the ODL every day and I really didn't have much in the way of complaints.

 

I think the current uniforms are fairly serviceable. They are cut a bit larger than the ODL and the microfiber is about as casual as you can get in a button down shirt.

 

The Canadian uniforms look pretty much the same other than color. Personally I like the muted colors of our uniform.

[Eagle92]

Personally I am in the pro-traditional camp.

 

#1 it's Identity in the community. I've been commented on that and compared to the GSUSA who do not have an identifiable uniform from the community's perspective. I've been told the only time you can tell a girl is a GS is when they are sellign cookies..

 

#2 It's cheaper than the experimental uniform going on in the Baltimore Area Council I believe. Underarmour shirts, pants, and socks are not cheap compared to the current BSA. PLUS you have to get a new shirt for each rank as the shirt you wear is rank based. here are some links but the link wiht the prices, as well as the proposed shorts, pants, and socks I cannot find.

 

http://www.bsacarroll.org/node/1960

 

http://www.scoutingnews.org/2009/07/31/baltimore-area-council-to-pilot-alternative-bsa-under-armour-field-uniform/

 

[Tampa Turtle]

I generally like the overall uniform. I just want it to be a little more practical.

[blw2]

I see lots of mention in this threads and similar, of the current uniforms not being "practical", or "serviceable", or whatever.....

 

What's not practical about a button down shirt (especially microfiber) and cargo pants?

Plenty of pockets for 'stuff', so that aint it....

I got the relaxed fit switch backs.... plenty comfortable, so that aint it....

My son hasn't complained or had any issue with his uniform, except the necker slide falling off when he's running around after the meetings..... one quick adjustment of the tabs, and problem solved....

[shortridge]

What are we calling traditional in this thread?

 

No clothes are practical or suitable for every occasion. You wouldn't wear a biz suit hiking, nor jeans on a canoe trip. If you want to both look sharp for dressy occasions and wear the uni camping, buy two. It's that simple.

[Kudu]

 

We in the Traditional Scouting movement pressed hard in the mid-1990s for what is now known as the "Centennial Uniform."

 

In fact my comparison chart describing the benefits of such a radical change was the very first page of the Traditional Scouting Website:

 

http://inquiry.net/uniforms/bdu.htm

 

The basic ideal "Traditional" BSA Uniform (not to be confused with a Baden-Powell Uniform):

 

1. The color scheme should be subdued, with no bright patches. At the time, the Oscar de la Renta shirt was known in the rest of the world as the "Christmas Tree Uniform."

 

2. A Boy Scout Uniform should scream "Outdoor High Adventure."

 

3. The pants should be practical in the outdoors (as were Boy Scout Uniforms in the early Scouting Movement), and something a boy can wear to school without being embarrassed.

 

The BSA did remarkably well, considering the vengeance with which so many adults defended the dress-designer Uniform (that most Boy Scouts hated with the very fiber of their souls).

 

The BSA did not follow our advice about designing the collar to accommodate a square 32" X 32" full-sized neckerchief, and getting rid of the epaulets/shoulder loops.

 

But as for practical outdoor summer wear, I would have much preferred the previous prototype shirt (that was said to come out of Philmont), the nylon "BSA Action Shirt," Style 202B (catalogue #61693, maybe). It is FULLY vented in the back, and PERFECT in hot weather. I bought a bunch of them for $5 when they were closed out (although I missed out on the long sleeve version). I wear it and and the Centennial Boy Scout Supplex Uniform Shorts every day now when I do my three miles of walking.

 

Even in hot and humid Florida weather, the Action Shirt is cooler than a T-Shirt.

 

Do-it-yourself Traditional Baden-Powell Uniform Shirt:

 

http://inquiry.net/uniforms/traditional/shirt01.htm

 

Patch placement:

 

http://inquiry.net/uniforms/traditional/placement.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[whitepine]

I'm with blw2 and Eagle92. If we can't have an official uniform that has patches and sets us apart, then why do we have a structured scouting program? This isn't a school club. I could care less if a kid from my school saw me in my unform. I like my shirt and would feel strange without it.

[perdidochas]

Kudu,

 

The microfiber version of the uniform (latest that I know of) has vents. My oldest son enjoys his. It's much cooler than the last one.