Dilemma for the Uniform Police on Number Colors

[Eagle92]

Hi, my name is Eagle92 and I am a recovering Uniform Policeman.

 

Seriously though you all know my background and my views on the uniform, but I have a dilmma in regards to the Webelos Uniform.

 

Oldest will be a Webelos at the end of May. I am in the process of getting his uniform purchased, little brother needs the blue uniform and oldest has little room left in the blue one anyway, so that I can start getting stuff sewed on it for the Memorial Day Weekend Service Project. He will be buying the uniform, and I would hate for him to buy new numbers that will be worn for only 18 months and then need to be changed.

 

Now you all know my thoughts on the switching of colors, as well as the entire SNAFU that was the unveiling of the Centennial Uniforms with no guidance from national for almost 10 months, with misinformation continuing to this day.

 

So the question is this: does he buy the green on tan numbers, which according to the current uniform standards are for Boy Scouts only, but we as we all know were originally told that everyone in the CUs wear them, or buy a set of red numbers and in 18 month buy the green ones?

 

Transferring the numbers is not an option as little brother #1 is buying the shirt and most of the patches on it.

 

I know it's a minor detail overall, but when a kid is buying his own uniform, it is a big deal for them.

 

Thanks in advance

[Tampa Turtle]

If he is buying the tan shirt then IMHO by all means get the green numbers and don't worry about it.

[Jeffrey H]

Our Webelos wear the White on Red unit numbers on their tan shirts since they are still in Cub Scouts. This is the directive we have received from our Council. Basically, Boy Scouts wear the Green on Tan numbers and Cub Scouts/Webelos wear the White on Red. Cub Leaders also wear the White on Red.

 

 

[AJR2305GDC]

Eagle92,

 

Although some of the info on the supply site seems to contradict itself, the "uniform essentials guide" for webelos on that site lists unit numbers as item nos. 10400-08, meaning the red/white numbers. I believe I just saw one image with a webelos scout wearing green/tan on supply's site, but I know they're infamous for messing these things up. The inspection sheet for webelos (No. 34760) gives no guidance. Also see online insignia guide http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/05A.aspx, but past research showed me that this is the IG from about 2007, so I'm not sure if this still holds.

 

On another related topic which I stumbled upon while trying to answer the question:

 

1. "Arrow of Light Award, cloth, blue on khaki, No. 00044, Webelos Scout, below left pocket. Arrow of Light Award miniature pin, No. 00115, civilian wear. Arrow of Light Award, metal pin, No. 00463, Webelos Scout, below left pocket. Arrow of Light metal miniature pin, No. 00115, parents, civilian wear."

 

2. "Note: Cub Scout advancement badges and emblems must be attached directly to the uniform."

 

(1) Don't Cubs wear the AoL on the left pocket FLAP???

(2) I guess the last statement in the quote means supply shouldn't be selling that plastic diamond dangle patch holder thing that we all hate so much.

[qwazse]

Oh for the love of ...

 

Buy the green-on-tan numbers. Ask the troop if any pack-rats have any used white on red numbers he can "borrow" for just two months.

 

IMHO National's absurd spinning off of different color schemes for every transition a boy makes should not be countenanced. There should be one color pattern for all unit #s across all programs. Change it in one program = change it in all. This allows for vintage #s to be carried forward.

 

Next thing you know some thread-seller at national will mandate a different council patch for different programs in a council. They might even require different borders on the flag patches.

 

[End of rant](This message has been edited by qwazse)

[hendrickms24]

"(1) Don't Cubs wear the AoL on the left pocket FLAP???"

 

AJR2305GDC,

The AOL did go on the left pocket flap when I was a Webelo (30 years ago) but I think that changed when they changed to the tan uniform and started using the oval webelos rank.

 

I think they are assuming that the scout will have out grown the blue shirt by 9 1/2 years old. This was true with my son, who blue shirt was busting at the seems his first Webelos year.

 

 

[DLChris71]

To me it comes down to whether the Pack and future troop have the same numbers. If they do then go with green and tan, if not then you'd have to replace the numbers anyway. I'd personally go with red and white though to maintain solidarity with the current pack, for $5 or so, and sewing it doesn't seem like you are saving a lot by going ahead with green/tan.

[Eagle92]

Jeff, AJ, and DL

 

Trust me I know what should be worn now. But when the CUs came out, everyone in them wore tan and greens. The information was so poorly communicated as to who wore what, that when I heard rumours that CS leaders were to still wear red and whites, I called my friends at a national scout shop, and was told to get the tan and green numbers and trained strip for my CU shirt. A week or two later I am reading about tan on red numbers for cub leaders (I got a photo of them too somewhere on the computer), and then about a month after I get my CU and have the patches sewed on, I get the word that I am suppose to wear red as a TCDL. I grumbled and switched over, keeping the tan and green numbers and traineds trip. The 2009 Insignia Guide which covered the CUs came out in late April/ early May; 9-10 months after the CUs were introduced. So we have a several leaders still wearing the greens and tans, and a few Webelos too since they are wearing big brother's hand me downs. A lot of folks in my unit were ticked. Also the local distributor was ticked off b/c I was the one who told her about the uniform policy and not National Supply.

 

So any pics you see with the green and tan numbers on Webelos or CS leaders were taken between May 2008 when the uniforms were unveiled, to April.May 2009 when the IG came out.

 

 

Qwasze,

 

You want a rant on this discussion, see some of my previous posts on this topic. , especially the ones I posted after hearing complaints from folks in my unit.

 

Trust me yours isn't a rant.

 

Actually we got a mix of colors currently as we have some leader still wearing the tan and greens from when they purchased them when that was suppose to wear.

[Eagle92]

Forgot to add,

 

if memory serves, the location of the AOL patch changed from the left pocket flap to under the pocket when the TC patch went from the TC belt totem to the pocket in the Webelos spot. That was around 2000 or 2001.

 

Until that time, Webelos had to transfer the Bobcat badge, and Wolf and Bear badges if earned, form the blue shirt to the tan shirt.

[Scoutfish]

Never was part of the UP myself, But I do like thinks to be right or really close.

 

In your case - if the troop numbers are the same - I'd say screw it and go ahead and buy the green and tan ones.

 

Sure, even though the info was conflicted, we do know now what it was "supposed" to be.

 

But there is also the real world of uniforms too. If the biggest issue you have is that the numbers are the wrong color...you have it made!

[AJR2305GDC]

Thanks Hendrickms24 and E92

 

qwasze, national does have multiple flag patches for the uniform

http://www.scoutstuff.org/u-s-flag-emblem.html

http://www.scoutstuff.org/usa-flag-emblem.html

No explanation why, but it's kinda strange...

[Eagle92]

In regards to the flag patches. Originally the uniforms did not include a flag. Then some time in the 1970s I beleive, and someone with better info please correct me, flag patches became part of the uniform. Cubs wore them over the right pocket, Boy Scouts, Explorers, and their leaders wore them on the right sleeve. Don't recall Sea Scouts or CS Leaders wore them. Soyou had to buy them.

 

Then sometime in the late 80s early 90s, I am going out on a limb and saying 1989 as that was the year they changed the uniform pants, shorts and advancement for Boy Scouts, and intorduced the Academics Program to Cubs, they started coming out withthe shirts with the pacthes already on, and everyone wore them inthe same place.

 

Since some I've been told some of the flags on the CU shirts are coming off, it's a good idea for them to have a supply to sew on.

 

As to why there are 2 sizes, I don't know.

 

Reminds me, I gotta add a US flag patch to the list of things to get for son's uniform. Also gotta have him budget for chocolate to bribe momma into embroidering "Boy Scouts of America" on his shirt.

[Tampa Turtle]

Insert Generic Explanation here! If they got Green numbers so what? Most parents take months to get the right thing sewed on. They got that gawky plaid necker, blue tabs, belt loops, and webelo cap aint no scout gonna confuse them for a Boy Scout.

 

That said I did the red numbers with the first one. This is an area I would encourage-once but not require.

[Tampa Turtle]

I looked at the Flag patches. Obviously the blue trimmed one is for commie-democrats like me and the gold-trimmed one is for the Imperial New World Order wing of the BSA.

[Curious]

Personally, I don't think it matters one whit what the uniform police think. The only thing that matters is what your son thinks of his uniform. If he takes pride in wearing it, you've made a solid choice.

 

"Obviously the blue trimmed one is for commie-democrats like me and the gold-trimmed one is for the Imperial New World Order wing of the BSA."

 

Hmmmm .... I may need to switch mine out ....