I have an issue with wearing the James West Knot - Me that is.

[Scouter.]

I have come to see that when you pony up and donate for the James Wests Foundation, soon after, you will see your name on the internet, newsletters, council office plaques, etc.

 

I'm not big on celebrating me giving money to someone or something.

 

I just prefer to let it rest and that's it,

 

Oh...and so I say that anything regarding this $ is "Anonymous".

 

So hopefully nobody really knows.

 

So I got the Knot with this Silver pin (I think I heard ..."Gee Gaw" in another thread).

 

So I'm thinking should I wear it, or not? I haven't yet,,,been a while.

 

I don't think so, I saw the knot and that pin sold for enough for a new scout shirt or something, _ no pants,,,I rippped up a pair of olg gree pants tripping through the woods on a Geocach trip,

 

Yup,,,eBay it will be.

 

Sorry,,,im blathering away,,,

'

Peace...S.

[Beavah]

Yah, the more knots I got over the years the less enamored I became of the system.

 

I think us folks who give money get enough recognition if we want it. The real recognitions in the program should be for the folks who spend all their time and treasure working with the kids. I've never been fond of the purchase-an-award awards. Just doesn't seem consistent with the Mission.

 

But I never thought of EBay! What an amusin' idea. Not only would I make a few bucks to give back to scouting, but I could generate another thread where people complain about folks selling restricted items on EBay!

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

You do what you feel comfortable with, BUT PLEASE DO NOT EBAY THEM. (caps for begging

 

I met a gentlemen just like you, he was a Heritage or Founders level, who did not like publicity and actually threatened me and my boss with retracting his pledge if we publicly honored him. He didn't want any attention. The council finance VP basically said "Leave him to me" and went off to make his plans. With this VP you not only cannot say "No" he won't accept it.

 

Fast forward a few weeks to the FOS dinner. The donor's friend the VP calls him forward, says how he is a very generous Friend of Scouting who is making a contribution to the community, and give him a framed Norman Rockwell print, and a package with the JE West stuff in it. I remember seeing the Rockwell in his office later, but never saw him wear the know, pin, or put up the plaque. When he died, he left money to take care of the camps, and more importantly IMHO, created a campership program that included everyone Cubs Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers as the existing one was for boy scouts only.

 

Another gentleman I met was shocked and honored to get the West Award. He was a long term scouter, and a bunch of parents of his current scouts' parents and troop alumni got together to raise the money for a fellowship. He wears the knot with pride.

 

But I've also seen it abused. I know of one gentleman who donated $4000 so that he would be the first family in the council to have everyone in it a West Fellow, including his Cub Scout. I also know of one council that received a very large donation, so large that every member of that Eagle Class and all the full time office staff became West Fellows. Sole purpose of splitting up the donation ws so that the council could be #1 in West Fellows in their council category in the region.

 

So I understand where you are coming from, and do what you feel is best.

 

OH and thank you for your support of scouting.

[Eagle92]

Oh one more thing about West Fellowship. I was told, don't remember who or when though, that the West Award and the follow ons ; Heritage Society and Founders' Circle, were created to recognize big donors with those awards instead of Silver Beavers. Folks in the field were complaining that big donors kept getting the SBs and not the folks in the field.

 

Again this is what I was told.

[Basementdweller]

So where does the James West money go???? Does it go to salaries????? Camps?????

 

 

Let me see Send 12 boys to day camp or knot for the shirt....you already know my choice, but $1,000 is out of my reach anyhow.

[Eagle92]

Base,

 

Good news, the West, Heritage, and Founders' money goes into the council's endowment fund, so it CANNOT BE TOUCHED! (caps for emphasis). The money accrues interest, and the interest only can be used. Now someone with financial planning expereince tell me if I'm wrong, but once the interest is not used the year it is earned, it then becomes part of the endowment, so it cannot be used as well.

 

My council was fortunate in that for years it did not touch the endowment and it grew and grew with interest being added every year. Now in these hard times, the interest is helping.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle732]

Apparently it goes to your council's "Endowment Fund", whatever that is. My guess it goes into the general fund.

My family did the James West Award in memory of my uncle who was a life-long scout/scouter for over 60 years.

[Eagle92]

The endowment fund is a separate account from the operations budget. Money in the endowment cannot be used AT ALL, only the interest earned form the account.

 

Purpose of the endowment was to create a stable source of income, interest from the endowment, and the push for councils to create endowments came when UW funding started to be lost.

[Eamonn]

I've donated a few dollars.

Never really cared one way or the other about recognition. Until I attended the National Jamboree. In 2001 I wore a shirt that had mainly knots that had to do with me being the SM of the Jambo Troop. I witnessed the special treatment that people wearing the "Right Uniform" were receiving.

In 2005 I wore every knot that I ever received.

You bet that after Mass on Sunday the Scouts and myself went to the VIP Tent and had a very good breakfast.

Didn't get to ride the helicopter. -Oh well.

As for endowment funds never being touched? It can and does happen.

Ea.

[qwazse]

I know a couple of scouters that toss their "donation knots" in a drawer. For one guy, his uniform is the respect we accord him. (That includes being the brunt of many of our jokes.) He's definitely a 5-row guy who would rather not have the cloth get in the way. So the knots are simply not there. (He had a UC in his face once for not wearing them. It was kinda like watching an ant trying to stomp on an elephant!)

 

On the other hand, I know a bunch of "5-row" guys whose personality shines through and it's like the knots aren't even there. Kids love working with them.

 

To each his own, but I'd stay of the -bay.

[OldGreyEagle]

What can I say? Another edition of Knot Fun...

 

ANyway, I have a few knots, there are the one from my youth, Arrow of Light Knot, Eagle Knot and Religious award as a youth. Then there are the adult ones, Silver Beaver, Council Venturing Leadership, Religious Award as an Adult, District Award of Merit and Training. All of the adult ones were "awarded" because of someone else's nomination. The training one? The Scoutmaster of the troop kept track of a bunch of us and put us in for it. So, I have a bunch of knots which I wear to honor the people who thought enough of me to nominate me for those awards. So I wear them

 

But to "Buy"? a knot? That just seems well Tacky, but as I wear all mine, I guess those West guys should be allowed to wear theirs as well regardless of how I feel. I am not sure I agree with everyone all the time anyway and they with I

[Twocubdad]

Hmmm....

 

Like a lot of folks I know, I received my "bought" knot the same way you received the knots you listed -- I was nominated for it by others. Folks who felt enough of the nomination to back it up with $1000. That was 8 or 9 years ago and that $1000 is still in council endowment, spinning off interest every year.

 

I know a lot of folks who received a West Fellowship that way -- can't say I know of anyone who paid the $1000 themself.

[CHLees3rd]

Eagle92,

 

In theory, the endowment fund can not be touched. However, I have seen council dip into its endowment fund when it did not have enough for the operations. I am not sure if council has to pay it back like a 401K loan. All I know is that less interest is generated for the future.

 

Chazz Lees

[Eagle92]

Just repeating what I was told from when I was a DE and had to make the West pitch.

[dkurtenbach]

I don't understand this notion that making a donation to the Council endowment fund -- a gift that keeps on giving -- is somehow "buying an award." Some folks have time to give to Scouting, and we honor them. Some folks have talent to give to Scouting, and we honor them. Some folks have money to give to Scouting. Why should anyone -- including the giver -- think that using their personal resources to benefit Scouting is somehow of less value, something to be embarrassed about, or even something to scorn?

 

Dan Kurtenbach

Fairfax, VA