World Crest Patch not required - per insignia guide. Correct????

[Scouter.]

I'm a bit confused. Help me out guys.

 

BSA Insignia Guide states for the "World Crest Patch"...May be worn by all members of Scouting to symbolize their membership in the World Scouting movement.

 

But the Scoutstuff.org webpage with that patch has it listed under "required" patches and states...Part of the Official Scout Uniform worn by all members of Scouting as a symbol of world brotherhood."

 

On the Uniform Inspection sheets there is no indication that the World Crest is an "optional" patch.

 

So in a recent Scout Uniform inspection, a number of scouts had points deducted for not having that patch on. There is no formal policy by the Troop that the Scouts must have that patch.

 

So I was talking with some of the moms and we looked it up.

 

It seems that if a unit has not designated, then it's up to the BSA documentation and would seem BSA Insignia guide would win out over what the Scoutstuff website states.

 

How about helping us out. Thanks!

 

[Eagle92]

One of the things about the World Crest (WC) is that as of August 1, 1989, the WC was no longer an award that was earned by either A) going out of the country for a minimum of 5 or 6 days for a scouting function with foreign scouts or B) Hosting a foreign scout for 5 or 6 days for a scouting function. Since Aug. 1 1989 EVERYONE wears it.

 

So until Aug 1, few folks wore it as it had to be earned. And I knwo that a bunch of us who had earned it, and others who were in middle of a trip when Aug. 1 hit were not happy campers.

 

Now hears the deal, sometimes BSA literature doesn't get updated as it should, even when revised. And that does include the Insignia Guide, known in Supply as the "uniform bible." And sometimes the IG has mistakes in it. If memory serves, a lot of the Sea Scout info in it is now wrong since 2002.

 

Also BSA literature doesn't always agree with one another. Best example is the joining requirements to be a Boy Scout. In one place you have one set of requirements, where it's possible for anyone including an 8yo who has completed 5th grade to be a Boy Scout, and another place says 10 AND completed 5th grade.

 

Now in regards to the IG and uniform inspections sheets,you would think they agree, but they don't. The sheet is correct it's a "required patch." But as some folks who will get into a whole lot more semantic will say, NONE of the patches are required as a uniform is not required.

[Scouter.]

Eagle92,

 

I hear what you are saying, but looking a little further, I found:

 

BSA International Webpage - "An emblem of the World Organization of the Scout Movement, the World Crest may be worn by all registered youth members and adult leaders as a symbol of their membership in a worldwide Scouting brotherhood."

 

But...I'm thinking that Mike Walton has a lock on it where he states...:In 1991, the BSA once again changed the policy over the objections of many local councils, whose volunteers and professionals had grown to respect the World Crest and what it stood for. The present policy is that the patch WILL BE WORN BY ALL YOUTH MEMBERS AND BY ALL ADULTS, VOLUNTEER OR PROFESSIONAL, AS A SIGN OF WORLD BROTHERHOOD AND UNITY WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL SCOUTING COMMUNITY." This comes from... http://www.scoutinsignia.com/crest.htm

 

So bottom line...

 

It is required.

 

Thanks for the help.

[ScoutBox]

It is a required emblem on the uniform. the BSA is a member of WOSM. So each member should wear the emblem. The International Knot is the award that can be awarded for International experience.

 

On another Note. I just spent 3 days with Mike Walton. He's a member of our Council. And on our Executive Board.

[Scouter.]

...and if anyone knows about scout uniforms...he does or he'll go to national and find out :-) nice guy!

 

 

[Eagle92]

OH YEAH Mike, aka Black Eagle, is awesome in regards to uniforming info.

[ScoutBox]

BTW, Mike Walton is on Facebook.

[blw2]

Sort of a side track gripe I guess, but if this patch is required for all, why don't they come pre-sewn onall new shirts, just like the U.S. flag and BSA strip?

[emb021]

I've asked the same thing, and not gotten an answer. It would certainly alleviate the problem of people putting it in the wrong spot.

 

I think it interesting that the uniform of the Boy Scout of the Philippines, they embroider the World Crest AND their logo on all their uniform shirts.

 

 

[Eagle92]

When I worked for national Supply, this was the answer I got in regards to the WC. Because of where it is suppose to be worn, 1/2 way between the left pocket and the shoulder seam, depending upon the size of the shirt, it could be right on the pccket, and not allow any knots to be worn (think Cubs and religious knot) or so high up that it is not seen because it is under the collar of folks who do not wear neckerchiefs. Also for some adults with a bunch of knots, the WC would need to be adjusted. I saw one adult leader with that situation, and dependng upon the size of the shirt, I could see that happening for some of the smaller leaders.

 

EDITED: I also asked that question as I offered it as a suggestion to improve service. At least the American flag comes with the shirt already sewn on. I remember when it was bought separately, and Cub wore it over the right pocket.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[ScoutBox]

I also think that there is a % of the monies for each WC that goes to Would Scouting Organization.

 

I bought some at the HQ here in Geneva, Switzerland once. But they cost more then they usually do through the Scout Shop. I needed two urgently, or I would have ordered them.

 

I earned my WOSM Emblem when I was first an ASM back in the early 90's while stationed in Germany.. They we got it for going camping with foreign scouting units.

[Papadaddy]

It doesn't come pre-sewn, because as we earn square knots, it has to keep moving up!

[Oak Tree]

Look, there has to be an appropriate place for the world crest to go on a new shirt. The BSA uniform regulations don't suggest moving the world crest to allow for shirt collars or square knots or service stars, although people do indeed do that.

 

I think the practical answer is that the world crest doesn't come on the uniform because it would be a hassle for them to do it and it's easier not to.

 

I do think the uniform regulations should be adjusted to allow for varying placement of the world crest, but maybe they are just uniform "guidelines" anyway :-)

[Eagle92]

Scoutbox is correct, a certain percentage of the patches does go to WOSM. ALSO I remember being told, although this wasn't from a supply person, that the BSA doesn't own the copyright or patent for the patch, and thus cannot produce it automatically on the shirt.

 

I remember earning my in 1987 when my troop sponsored some Canadians for summer camp. THAT WAS FUN!!!! The council made a special edition summer camp patch for just that week of camp,and the members of the three units who hosted the Canadians got the WC as well.

 

As I mentioned I was in the middle of a trip going to Canada when the policy was changed. The leaders knew we were going to be upset and broke the news gently to us. Once we met the "old" requirements they gave everyone of us a WC that they obtained from Scouts Canada, which has a velvet background.

[blw2]

When sewing mine on, I found in the uniform guide mention that the crest patch is supposed to be centered between the top of the pocket and the shoulder seam. That's pretty high up, and plenty high for a lot of square knots.

I didn't have this book when we were assembling my son's uniform so it is placed quite a bit lower, more like most of the "official" scout pictures and drawings show it....

My point really, is that this uniform thing is not really uniform without clear standards.