New at ScoutStuff.org - "Adult Knot Sashes" (Not)

[Bronco]

I see both sides of this. I only have one uniform and I do have 7 knots on it. Depending on what crowd I'm with (unit or district) it can feel a bit silly at times to have them on.

 

The best explanation I ever heard in the pro camp for them is that they show others that you are a resource for those positions.

[Eagle92]

Scouter.,

 

You did state thjis in the OP:

 

Do the other kids look up to each other or oogle my patches.

 

But like a lot of internet, and real life, conversations, the topics tend to grow and mutate over time.

 

Actually I think what's making my uniform over the top are not the knots, but the following:

WSJ

Centennial Ring

 

I noticed one of my older uniforms from when I was a young ASM, didn't have much on it. No jambo insignia, no rings, no knots. It only the CSP, BROWNSEA Strip, Vet bar, numbers, trained strip, World Crest, Flag, and my favorite temp patch of all time: DON'T ASK ME, I'M ONLY A LEADER.

 

Now I did see a gentleman whose been involved in Scouting since beforee WWII, and has been and continues to be very active. The guy had 6 or 7 rows of knots, jambo insignia, Powderhorn pin, WB regalia, etc. No centennial or jambo ring though, and he didn't look like a generalissimo.

 

 

 

[Scouter.]

...so I did. Thanks for pointing that out ever so kindly :-)

 

And I appreciate the example you posted as well.

 

Kindest regards,

 

S.(This message has been edited by Scouter.)

[kd7kip]

Scouter-

 

Sorry to divert your original thread-- I started by considering knots, but veered off on uniform clutter in general.

 

I was reading through my old "Scoutmaster's Handbook" (1967 edition, the one my dad used to use when my older brothers were Scouts). It indicated that Scouters were not to wear more than five medals or knots on the uniform at a time-- their choice. I wonder when it became permissible to wear more? (Not that I'm against knots, just clutter).

 

-Scott

 

 

[Eagle92]

KD,

 

When more than 5 knots became allowed I don't know. But I think it is still a max of 5 medals. I don't see it changing back to the 5 knot limit anytime soon for CS, BS, and Venturing leaders, or for Boy Scouts and Venturers, anytime soon since they keep adding knots.

 

Now for Sea Scouts, there has been a limit of 6 knots since 2002. But a lot of leaders and ships still wear their pre-2002 "piratical outfits" still.

 

Finally I believe the WB21C syllabus suggests, stress SUGGESTS, 9 knots max for staff. Luckily no word on participants

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[Scouter.]

KD7Kip,

 

No worries. I was probably having a moment.

 

Best regards,

 

Scouter.

[keimel]

As a youth and younger adult leader, I would usually have two uniforms. One for field, one for more formal events, courts of honor, awards ceremonies, etc. It also helped to have two uniform shirts during the week long camps. Remember, you are sure to make it rain when you hand wash your smelly class A and leave it up to dry overnight.

 

It is about the scouts, yes. But there are also adults who do thrive on the recognition. And if those scouters are providing excellent service while earning things, that's fine with me. If they are providing excellent service IN ORDER to earn those things (as the primary reason), that I am not so happy with. But if it takes a couple patches to inspire and motivate someone to enrich themselves and improve the program, so be it. We are all motivated by SOMETHING to do what we do. Whether it's the training of our own children in the program, the helping of all youth, personal satisfaction or fulfillment, parole officers suggestion , or simply "giving back" to the organization, any number of those reasons can motivate us. Additionally, I see that when a pack or troop recognizes its leaders by an award such as this, perhaps more by the unit keeping track than by assigning "tasks for awards" - it's an excellent recognition. A proper pack trainer would make earning such an award invisible to the scouter, almost surprising them with recognition. Honoring the recognition is certainly something worth doing, as others have pointed out.

 

I also look at it in another way. It _IS_ for the scouts. And when they're called up to receive their awards, they're getting their own bling. To receive their own awards by someone else bedecked in bling raises the level of pomp and circumstance. "Wow, I've never seen Mr CM in a uniform like that... this must be a special occasion". Yes, each scout earning their awards IS a special occasion, for that scout and their family. And my recognizing that by dressing myself in the most appropriate uniform is warranted.

 

Wear it all or not. Wearing it properly is the only requirement. If you want to be a generalissimo, that's fine with me. If you earned 'em, I won't fault you for showing them. More power to you. But don't assume that just because someone else isn't wearing 3 rows of knots that they're not every bit as experienced or knowledgeable as you are about things. I'm learned multiple times to not underestimate people by how they appear... Those are other stories and might have to wait for the campfire or the cracker barrel.

 

$.02.

 

YiS,

 

j

[keimel]

For those interested, the PDF version of the OP's referenced announcement is available here:

 

http://www.cpds.org/Docs/Cub_Scout_Adult_Leader_Awards_to_be_Consolidated.pdf

[Eagle92]

Anyword when a Tiger Cub device will come out for us DLs who earned the TCDL Award?

 

And while I was thinking about which 6 knots to wear on my Sea Scout uniform, i just realized, I JUST NEED TO ADD a CS , and whenever they make them, TC devices to my existing knots!

 

Ok sarcasm off.

[skeptic]

A repost of a very old experience I shared way back, but related. The first few years as SM, I did not have many knots to worry about, but did have medals from youth, as well as the Training Award. I was really on the scouts to actually wear their proper, earned insignia and in the manner designated. After a court of honor, I was exasperated that half the kids seemed to not care much to wear complete uniforms, sashes, and so on, so I had a discussion with them. Their response was that if I wanted them to wear their earned awards, then so should I. That came from the boys; and I make sure I have one shirt with the bling for the "formal" occasions. And, I wear related medals when it seems appropriate, but never all of them, after one time, to respond to the TLC's critique.

 

As an aside, often the knots are of interest to younger scouts particularly; and it gives you an opportunity to talk to them about their goals and so on. Mostly though, I tend to say the knots are a result of being an old guy and being around a long time.

[kd7kip]

keimel-

 

Thanks for posting the link to that pdf.

 

I'm a little disappointed, I must admit, that they're going to be using the Scouter's Key for CMs, and Scouter's Training Award for Cub trainers, etc. I have always associated the Green knots with Boy Scout programs, and blue/yellow knots with Cub Scouts. I do like the fact that they're consolidating all the Den Leader awards. All in all, I think its a move in the right direction.

 

-Scott

[Eagle92]

KD,

 

The Key and Training Award medals and knots are also used by Venturing Leaders, Commissioners, and District Committee folks. So aligning CMs, Trainers,ADLs, and Pack committee mermebrs with those awards above is actually what has already been done at the other levels.

 

I think it's going to get VERY interesting when folks who have an anti-CS leader bias start seeing CS leaders with Training Award and Key knots.

[kd7kip]

Eagle-

 

Yes, after my previous post I did a little research on the web and see that you are correct. I also found that the Cub knots are of relatively recent vintage (80s or so).

 

It will be interesting to see Cub Leaders with keys & training awards. As I said earlier, I'm all for reducing the variety of knots, but certainly support people wearing them (within good taste).

 

-Scott(This message has been edited by kd7kip)