Made in China

[johnponz]

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[johnponz]

Sorry double post-probably bad hardware because it was made in Korea or some place(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[BadenP]

Ponz

 

 

BSA National is not the all knowing and always right organization you think it is Ponz and to blindly defend them and some of their policies, like deciding to purchase uniforms from sweatshops in Asia is inexcusable as well as immoral. All the Venturing crews in our council are buying higher quality and better made uniforms at a price less than what National charges from a local manufacturer. So your own points in your last post are both untrue and invalid.

 

Yes, we do disagree and I call into question your own sense of what is right and wrong, fact or fiction, scouter or not.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Scoutfish]

Couldn't tell you why, but I took a look at the tag on the collar of my Uniform shirt.

 

It was made in Bangladesh. If you don't know, it's located between India and Burma. It's more of a "stan" country than anything else.

 

"stan" country is what a few of my friends and I call the countries that end with "stan" : Kazackistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan,Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc.....

 

Just saying because somebody would say Bangladesh is practicaly China.

[johnponz]

Just because a few venturing crews are buying uniforms from a local manufacturer does not mean that the supplier can meet the specs that BSA has for uniforms. Nor does it mean that they could handle the National contract. The volume is much higher than a few local crews.

 

I am not going to stoop to your level and make any personal attacks.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Eagle92]

John,

 

Using the Venturing pants as an example, yes the manufacturers could.

 

Venturing split from Exploring in August 1998 and it was kinda rushed through. Some materials were not available yet, and that included both the uniform pants and shorts. That's one reason why ANY charcoal gray colored shorts or pants are accecptable: national didn't come out with shorts until Aug 1999, and pants until Aug 2000. And I may be off by a year, Shorts 2000 and pants 2001, as my memory is playing with me.

 

Anyway Being the DE that I was and having to set the uniform example, I went looking for shorts, and a particular style that I saw at the "All Hands" Conference that unveiled Venturing. While looking for them, I saw a really nice pair from REI, but the shorts had elastic in it which I hate. So I moved on and got the pair I had until this year.

 

Well when national finally came out with official shorts, they were the exact same ones I saw at REI with the addition of the Venturing Tag that was on them, and looked kinda silly IMHO.

[chaoman45]

@Scoutfish - I think I saw that on the Centennial uniform, too. I just used Made in China because it's the most common colloquialism in described imported goods. If anybody is/knows a foreign Scouter, I'm interested in where your uniforms are made.

[johnponz]

Eagle,

 

Remember to get the National contract from BSA the supplier would have to be able to supply Cub Uniforms, Boy Scout uniforms, and to a lesser extent Venturing uniforms (as you mention there is more looseness here in uniform requirements). This includes the red jackets, wind breakers, winter coats etc.

 

At this point, I am not for sure a domestic supplier could handle that diversity at the volume the BSA needs at a competitive price point. I do not know because admittedly I am not involved in sourcing of clothing. However from what I have read, the companies who do this best at the most reasonable prices are now located overseas.

 

If you can prove to me that you have done the research and there are suppliers who can handle this at a reasonable price point, I will change my mind. However without facts to the contrary, I have to rely on the information that I have read.

 

People on this thread are all very noble about saying they would pay more for made in the USA product. The US consumer has already voted and the fact is they have demonstrated they want cheaper prices. That is why so much in Target and Wal-mart is made overseas now. I have a feeling if Scout uniforms became 20% higher priced the same people saying to buy American would start buying look alike products at the stores made overseas.

 

My experiences through the years have been that Scouters love to complain about uniforms, and they like to justify not wearing the complete uniform with any reason they can muster up. Today it is because they are made overseas. Tomorrow it is because the price is too high.

 

The people who follow this pattern are the ones who get most defensive when you say that you like the current uniform, and believe that all Scouts should wear it per the Insignia Guide.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[SSScout]

"" Today it is because they are made overseas. Tomorrow it is because the price is too high.""

 

No, it is because the uniforms are made overseas of POOR QUALITY and poor design. They fall apart after a dozen washings. The flags and name strips fall off. The requirement to buy and wear the item remains the same. AND The price remains the same, therefore the difference in price/quality means extra profit, which is why so much of American industry has moved "off shore".

The All American motorcycle, Harley Davidson, has many overseas parts. check your auto. Even American built cars will include a Mexican Rebuilt transmission (not new!).

If the Big Companies could do it, they would outsource the plumber who came to repair my leaky pipe. The company who rebuilt the radio dispatch system for my transit bus system (all GPS/CAD/LANcapable/ )was from Israel. What a commute! They stayed for 7 months until it finally worked "as advertised". There's NO NONE in the USA capable of this? Us Dispatch Operators (all very computer literate) could only shake our heads.

The buses would have been built in Mexico or Canada except for a requirement by the FedDOT that they be built "substantially" in the US of A. So they came from "assembly" plants in Buffalo and Albequerque.

Perhaps it is a sign of our new globalization. I am all in favor of our Bangladeshi neighbors earning a fair living. But at what cost to us? If the Kindle you read in bed was proven to have been manufactured by folks that have FAR less than the pay ($75?hour? I'll move there!) and healthy work conditions we enjoy here (guaranteed by a free press and the right to organize!), would you have bought it? If the shirt you wear was shown to have been made by folks that are locked in at night and not allowed to leave the factory compound except by permission of the bosses, would you have bought it?

Having an American made uniform is important for many reasons, not the least of which is that as the Boy Scouts of AMERICA, founded under a Congressional charte (hello, kudu), I think we owe it to those fellow Americans that could use our business.

I think it was Neil Armstrong who said that as he was sitting on top of the Saturn V waiting to travel to the Moon, he was struck by the fact that he was going in a space ship built by the lowest bidder. But it was an American bidder.

 

 

[Eagle92]

I don't think they are now using the same manufacturer for all clothing products. Otherwise the Cub Scout switchbacks would be identical to the Boy Scout canvass ones, and they are definately NOT!

 

Oldest is in a size 10 CS pant, but is in a size 8 BS pant because they are made differently.

 

I remember working in supply and being able to easily help Cubs who were getting the BS pants or shorts by asking them A) what size they were currently wearing, B) is the elastic fully stretched or is their room still, and C) getting the correct size with room to grow. It was easy because both the CS and BS uniforms were designed the same way, except colors and epalettes.

 

But I spent about 30-45 minutes having oldest try on BS pants to get the right size b/c not only are they made differently from the ODL pants, but also from his CS ones too.

 

Also the Venturing pants and shorts were a different design from the Cub Scout and Boy Scout ones then they first came out, and still are today.

 

And there is an issue of quality with the CUs. Grant you Supply has a lifetime warrenty, so you can exchange it, but it should not have to happen. PLUS as I tried to exchange some stuff, the clerk tried to tell me that they could't accept the exchange b/c it was used. Had to remind him of national's lifetime warrenty on all merchandise, and suggested he call Charlotte if need be to confirm.

 

 

[BadenP]

john Ponz

 

Once again you do not know what you are talking about. There are a number clothing manufacturers in the USA who could easily handle the full order of the BSA. The company we use and two others that I personally know about, and have sentthat info to National to let them reconsider.

 

WHAT YOU DON"T SEEM TO GET IS that the BSA likes the crap from Asia because they get it dirt cheap. The BSA could care less about the quality of the uniforms because those fat cats in Irving have all their uniforms custom made by an American manufacturer. National knows it holds the monopoly and can force the membership to buy whatever quality uniform it wants. All they really care about is making the highest profit possible, period.

 

So ponz try to get your erroneous facts straight, because you just look foolish defending National and their decision to buy our uniforms from Asian sweatshops.

[SSScout]

OO!! OOO!!! I got a good one, a good one....

I fully trust the old Scouter who told us about this, "a Scout is trustworthy"

 

A past Jamboree was in the last planning stages, and the Executive Committee was meeting. They came to this item on the agenda: Approve design for Staff Hats.

The fellow in charge presented his report, handed out a sample hat to each of the 12 or so board members. Each was "monogrammed" with the boardmember's name. Prices were discussed, design was approved. The Chairman (call him John Jones) hands his cap back to the "hat Person", saying, "this is good. Make 5,000."

 

Two weeks later, one month before the event, the hats arrive.

5,000 hats with "John Jones" embroidered on the back.

 

And so that is why every staff hat at that Jamboree has a broad rainbow embroidered on the back of the hat.

[johnponz]

BadenP,

 

You should review your behavior in the last several posts. You certainly have not been friendly, courteous or kind (25% of the Scout Law). Because of this lack of Scout Spirit, I am no longer going to respond to your posts. I have expressed my opinion without trying to demean anyone or make personal attacks. I would say that should be the way of Scouters.(This message has been edited by johnponz)