Made in China

[chaoman45]

>What is a "bombazine raincoats"?

 

Aviation-style raincoat. I'll try and post a picture of it when I get home.(This message has been edited by chaoman45)

[johnponz]

By the way, now that BSA offers nylon zip-offs (like the ones in your chart), there is no reason not to buy the official product. By the way the other products are not even allowed to be worn according to the insignia guide.

 

The official BSA uniform is the only one authorized, and troops are not allowed to change the uniform in any way. It is our duty as Scouters to comply with these guidelines, and especially when it involves Laws of the land as I mentioned above.

[johnponz]

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Scoutfish]

Two issues I have with the uniform:

 

 

1) Although I wouyld like a completely made in the USA uniform, I do not want to pay for a somebody who makes $75.00 an hour and gets 28 breaks aday and has to have another person change the thread on his sewing machine when it runs out becuase the union rules say so.

 

Not when you could take that same $75.00 and hour and hire three people who would love to have that work and would actually put in an honest days work.

 

2) Yeah johnponz,

 

WE get it. The guides say tat you cannot really be proud of being scout if you do not wear 100 % uniform.

 

Yet, if I am wearing my hiking boots with my long pants, who can tell what branmd, type, or color sock I am wearing - if any?

 

Maybe I am one of those people who needs compression socks, or I could be one of those people who's metabolism will cause my feet to be soaked after 3 minutes or wearing any sock?

 

Sure, I do take pride in my uniform amd I do my bet to look neat and sharp, but that line from BSA about pride and loyal is a big ole crock.

 

BSA is saying you needs to buy their uniforms so they can make more money off you.

 

I am surprised they haven't come out with official footwear and underwear yet.

 

[johnponz]

Here is the rest of the story...

 

When I was a youth, I was heavily involved in Scouting, and like many other people my biggest role model was a jewel of a Scouter who dedicated much of his life to the troop. He of course was my Scoutmaster, and he was a truly inspiring person. I could go on and on, but I won't as it is way off topic. He was not much for Council or District types of Scouting as he thought there was too much politics and "it wasn't about the boys." (althoguh now I am a District Scouter-but I was always more into that side of Scouting). He was woodbadge trained though and was very proud of that (a beaver).

 

In any case, he always said that if you do not wear the complete uniform, you should wear no uniform and just go with a T-shirt and jeans. That statement really struck home with me, and I have carried it with me into my Scouter "career."

 

So this attitude is really a giant nod to my biggest role model in Scouting, and I feel a duty to share that sentiment.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Scoutfish]

Let me reitterate:

 

A scout who does his best to wear his uniform right, and takes pride in his uniform is a noble thing;

 

BSA saying that in order to correctly show your pride, you must wear a complete uniform - is a ploy to get scouts to spend more $$$$$ at the scoutshop.

 

 

[BadenP]

john ponz

 

Man what is your problem? Are you a poster boy for National BSA Supply or what, lol.

 

The truth is this on uniform quality from Asia, they are getting uniforms at a dirt cheap price made with inferior materials and workmanship made in sweatshops and mainly made by chidren. For that reason alone the BSA is participating in immoral business practices by using these vendors.

 

Second, there are still some textile mills here in the USA producing quality uniforms for other groups and professions at only a slightly higher cost, ($5 or less) than overseas, and could easily fill all the uniform needs of the BSA. So your argument doesn't hold water.

 

So you can get off your high horse already, learn to research your arguments because your facts are faulty.

[chaoman45]

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh225/chaoman45/bombazine.png

 

Not the best quality, but this is the raincoat I was talking about. From the 1940 handbook:

 

Bombazine raincoat - Smart and trim, this military style full double-breasted coat with raglan shoulders and Official Scout buttons is a hit with Scouts from coast to coast. Its convertible collar, all-around belt and patented buckle give it a distinctive style.

 

No. 571 $5.95

[johnponz]

BadenP

 

Assuming your numbers are correct which I doubt (anyone can pull numbers from the air). When you are talking about cost per unit (and manufacturing cost at that) $5 extra is quite a bit. Assuming that the BSA sells 1 million units that equates to $5 million (quite a nice hunk of change). In today's climate even a few cents can lose a contract for a supplier.

 

You assume that the BSA uses sweat shops. How do you know this? Have you visited the factories that they use? Sounds like you are assuming facts not in evidence. we are living in a global economy and that is not going to change, and there are reputable suppliers based in otehr countries. It sounds like you are the one who may need to get his feet planted on terra firma. I certainly do not go around quaoting numbers without a basis in fact.

 

The story that I told about my former SM is the reason that I feel like I do about the BSA uniform, but I really do not care that it is made overseas for a lower price.

[SSScout]

Scoutfish: Thank you for your service to our youth.

1) As a former union member and rep to management (tho not in the textile industry) I take great exception as to your assertion that ANY textile worker in the US might be paid $75./hr. Or be allowed "28 breaks" during the workday. Those numbers are just so fantastic as to lead one to wonder what you might do for a living yourself.

2) If not for union organizing and legal representation, we might still have such industry scandals as the Triangle Shirt Factory fire, or more coal mine disasters than we have now. No "breaker boys".

The "free market" does not necessarily equate to the best conditions or fair pay for work. Not every employer has the best interests of its empoloyees at heart. If "profit" is the only motivation, then the term "slave" can appear without bidding.

Henry Ford easily came to the conclusion that his workers should be able to afford the cars they were making. That attitude staved off the union movement in the auto industry for some time, but not for ever.

 

Are our uniforms made in "sweat/slave" shops? I don't know, but I do know that there is no accepted , legal representation in China to protect the workers pay or work conditions. I would rather see "made in America" on the inside neck of my shirt.

[Tampa Turtle]

I am willing to pay an extra 10% premium on an Official Item provided it was a quality item. My first concern is a good product.

 

I compared my new replacement centennial pants with my son's new BDU tactical pants. (Tru-Spec Atlanco Basic BDU Trousers, 60/40 Poly/Cotton)

 

Comments:

 

Color Same: Cannot tell a difference.

Fabric Weight: Seems the same.

Look: I think it would be very hard to see that they are not uniform pants. BDU hang better and look sharper.

Pockets: BDU has 2 less.

Fasteners: BDU has no velcro or zippers just buttons.

Stitching: BDU is superior but not by much.

Construction: BDU is not a switchback. Has extra reinforcement in seat, knees, and "inseam stress points". Both have adjustable waist. BDU has 2 less pockets but the front ones are much bigger. BDU Length much longer.

 

So in general I found the construction of the BDU to be a little less complicated (less zippers) but more thoughtful. The centennial seemed to be designed by committee.

 

Price: Centennial $50 BDU $28. BSA costs 78% more.

 

 

 

 

[BadenP]

Well john

 

SS Scout is correct there are NO factories in Asia where the workers welfare is being protected, and these sweatshops have been documented countless times on 20/20, Nightline,60 Minutes and countless other shows. So by purchasing from these factories in all areas of Asia the BSA is guilty of being a willfull participant in this serious abuse issue. The BSA could take a lesson from the GSUSA who still have all their uniforms made in the USA and sell them at competitive prices to their members.

 

The argument that most clothing is made in Asia these days does not take away from the fact that the conditions these people work in is absolutely deplorable and that there is nothing being done to improve conditions in those factories. With my own crew, we used to order custom polos and sweatshirts as the crews venturing uniform from National Supply, until they started the Made in China move, now we ,and all the other crews in the council buy our uniforms from a local manufacturer. The materials and workmanship are excellent and each piece costs us one dollar less than what National charges. By the way this manufacturer got written permission from the BSA years ago to use all the BSA logos on their clothing.

 

So to all those naysayers out there we CAN still get quality uniforms made in the USA at competitive prices. By the way I have forwarded this information directly to CSE Mazzucca, who was my SE when I was a DE, and am still waiting to hear back, but I am not holding my breath.

[Mr. Boyce]

Good post, BadenP.

 

I'm upping the ante: I'll pay 20% more for US.

[TWOMORROWS]

If an individual wishes to remain employed himself it is his duty and responsibility to help keep his fellow citizens employed. A country's economy can not be based solely on comsumption. Buy made in the USA so each of us can remain productive and employed.

[johnponz]

I am going to quote Beavah from above because he said it pretty well:

 

"Yep, it's important to keep those low-payin' jobs for untrained illiterates right here in da U.S. of A. Can't expect our kids to be educated for somethin' better. Don't believe in that education and guvmint stuff anyhow. "

 

(This message has been edited by johnponz)