Made in China

[TWOMORROWS]

Panem et Circenses Latin for Bread and Entertainment

From the Roman Empire days...Keep their bellies full and keep them entertained and they will give up their civic and political responsibilities and therefore their power. This is exactly what has occured in the USA. It is each of our responsibility to keep our fellow citizens productive and working. BUY MADE IN THE USA!!!!!

 

Stepping down off my soapbox!

[OldGreyEagle]

I want to buy American, but I wont buy crap just because its American either and that, is the rub

[BadenP]

OGE

 

I agree with you, however the current BSA Made in CHINA uniform is exactly that -CRAP!!!

 

Yet the membership has no other option. The truth of the matter there are still a few textile factories in the USA producing fine quality uniforms and clothing that could produce uniforms at a competitive price if the orders were in large enough volumes, which the BSA orders would fulfill. National is getting cheap quality materials and poor workmanship at unbelievably low prices from Asia and yet they continue to raise uniform prices. Where is all that profit going?? Into National's coffers to pay for all those ridiculously high salaries and expense accounts from Mazzucca right down to the local councils SE's.

[Tampa Turtle]

Yes. I am pretty frustrated over the poor quality of the Centennial pants seams. I returned a pair where the inseam stitching was unraveling and yes they did exchange it. With the exact same pants with the poor quality stitching. For $50 I expect a heck of a lot more.

 

So our SM made the decision to say "or equivalent" for our uniform pants. I am not getting some BDU type pants of much higher quality for less cost for my son. We know that it may trip us up at some events but who cares?

[johnponz]

Military style BDU pants are actually not allowed by the BSA charter. The BSA is not a military organization so anything resembling "Battle Dress Uniforms" should not be worn by its members.

 

From the insignia guide regarding the charter:

 

"b) Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of Congress, approved June 3, 1916."

 

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Tampa Turtle]

johnponz,

 

Understood. And ignored. I doubt many could tell the difference. We will take our chance dodging the uniform police.

[johnponz]

I really do not understand why people continue to use a term such as "uniform police" which has negative connotations. Any Scouter or Scout should feel free to approach another brother and point out to him/her that their uniform is incorrect and needs adjustment. It is up to the recipient to comply or not, but one should not feel bad about pointing the issue out.

 

Secondly, while I wear a complete uniform if I am wearing a uniform, I do not much care if others choose not to.

 

Finally, the military style uniform is one that is specifically banned by law, so I think it is appropriate to point that out. Believe it or not, and it is well documented, a Scouter had his membership revoked by a SE in Alabama for refusing to change his military style pants at a camporee.

 

This is not your typical uniform issue, but one that some councils and National take seriously.

 

Do what you want. I just want to make sure that you are educated on the facts.(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Wilton125]

The US Military moved away from OD (olive drab) BDUs (Battle Dress Uniforms) in 1979.

 

Almost all OD BDUs sold in stores are similar to, but NOT exact copies of the US Military OD BDU pants from the 1960s and 1970s.

 

I own and use three pairs of OD BDU Pants when for campouts in the field. Retail costs were between $26 and $30. There are extremely well made and have lasted for over 6 years.

 

I have had Scouts and Adult Leaders in my Troop wear these types of pants to Troop Meetings, Courts of Honor (CoH) and other uniformed events. Most people cannot tell the difference. These dark green pants look better than khakis or jeans with the Scout shirt.

 

[Wilton125]

"Believe it or not, and it is well documented, a Scouter had his membership revoked by a SE in Alabama for refusing to change his military style pants at a camporee."

 

I bet that these were camouflage-style military-style pants as opposed to solid green military pants.

 

[johnponz]

You are correct.

 

I guess it is the term BDU (which is clearly a military term) that bothers me more than anyting. It implies that Scouts are going to a battle.

(This message has been edited by johnponz)

[Wilton125]

"National is getting cheap quality materials and poor workmanship at unbelievably low prices from Asia and yet they continue to raise uniform prices."

 

If BSA Nation Supply was selling the current uniform pants and shirt at $25 to $30 in order to allow families all income levels to afford Scout uniforms, then I could understand and appreciate this approach.

 

But BSA Nation Supply sells the current uniform pants and shirt at approximately DOUBLE the market price. Poor quality at high prices!

 

"Where is all that profit going?? Into National's coffers to pay for all those ridiculously high salaries and expense accounts from Mazzucca right down to the local councils SE's."

 

Do you think the CSE and other BSA National Scout executives wear or pay for the current, standard BSA uniform? No they do not. They wear "custom-made" Scout uniforms.

Where does the money come from to pay for these custom-made uniforms? Part of it come from the profit from BSA National Supply of selling youth and adults poor quality uniforms and other items at high prices.

 

What a sad commentary on the current state of BSA National Leadership. They should be ashamed!(This message has been edited by Wilton125)

[Tampa Turtle]

Yeah I wouldn't have my boy wear Camo pants--we have HAD that discussion. The pants in question look pretty much like the BSA Switchbacks without the switchback.

[Wilton125]

"b) Imitation of United States Army, Navy, Marine Corps or Air Force uniforms is prohibited, in accordance with the provisions of Act of Congress, approved June 3, 1916."

 

Does BSA follow the these rules? Here are some examples where they do not:

 

1. The current Centennial Uniform and ODL (Oscar de Larenta) uniform are very similar to the US Marine Corps Uniform with tan, two-pocket, dress shirts and dark green pants.

 

2. However the Marine Corps tan uniform shirt never had epaulets. But the US Army tan / khaki shirts dress shirts of the 1940s-1970s used to have epaulets. In the 1950s and 1960s dark green tabs were work on the epaulets to indicate "combat leadership". Sound familiar?

 

3. The flat, folding BSA hat of the late 1940s, 1950, 1960s and early 1970s was based on the "overseas hat" worn by the US military.

 

As a matter of fact BSA has much more military-based based uniforms than the Scouts in Canada, the United Kingdom or Australia.

 

Oh and by the way, all of the uniforms for the US Military are made by US manufactures. I think that these manufacturers would be happy to get the additional business. As of 2011, there was 3,630,779 (2 588 326 youth and 1 042 453 adults). That's a lot of potential business!

[Eagle92]

In regards to military and naval uniforms, BSA does have permission to use USN and USCG uniforms with modifications. Sea Scouts are the best example of that as they are authorized to shop at exchangesf or their uniforms.

 

But if memory serves, back in the BSA did have approval, and it was not rescinded even by the quote you mention, as the original BSA uniforms were US military surplus (and used the same vendor as the US Army) and elelments of BSA uniforms over the years did have a stiking similarity to US military and naval uniforms.

[Mr. Boyce]

Call me a "nativist" but I'd pay an extra ten bucks for a US-made uniform.