National is Consolidating Knots

[BartHumphries]

I already could wear devices on a knot -- I earned my Youth Religious award as a Cub Scout then again as a Boy Scout. I hate pins, though, I'm not going to wear them no matter how many times I've earned the same award doing different requirements.

[Tampa Turtle]

It is nitpicking but I hate pins too. If it is not important to me I will not wear it because they can be uncomfortable, need to remove them for field use, and I can never get them straight. If I find it significant I am afraid I will lose it at a campout ceremony. In that case I would prefer a knot to a pin device.

 

I wear my SM training plastic "train" device on my pocket because I earned it. I sewed it on so it wouldn't fall off.

 

I could go for some service stripes though.

[Eagle92]

A thought just occurred to me based upon something that happened to me. I wear both the Key knot and Training Award knot, one i got for being on the district committee and meeting the requirements, the other for being an ASM and meeting those requirements. I don't wear devices as stated previously. One of my friends saw me with the Key and commented, "I never knew you were an SM?"

 

It took him a minute or two to realize the knot is used for multiple awards.

[jrush]

There isn't any reason they couldn't make the knots with the devices embroidered on them.

[skeptic]

"There isn't any reason they couldn't make the knots with the devices embroidered on them."

 

While true, it would not serve the purpose then, as adding a device for each area is the point of the devices. Then they also would have to have more knots, as the embroidered device would differ on each one.

 

Most people would not need to worry anyway, as few earn the comparative award for more than one area, and those that do mostly would wear only two devices, cubbing and scouting.

[Eagle92]

That and, knowing national, there would be no knots with the First Class Anchor on them for us fogeys who earned awards that can use the "bug" device

 

Still can't figure out why it's restricted when the other devices are not though.

[jrush]

I thought the point wasn't to reduce the number of knots in the inventory, but rather the number of knots on the shirt.

 

If that's the case, then the scout shop could stock the "bare" knot and the "CS + BS" knot.

 

I always thought it would look "cleaner" if there was a "training" knot, a "leader" knot, etc, with something to denote multiple awards the way the military does oak leaf clusters, service stars and numerals on different awards.

 

That way, you get the best of both worlds...recipients can have everything they've done be displayed, at the same time having a cleaner uniform.

[JustAnotherScouter]

I'm not sure why the committee is looking to change things. From reading this forum it would seem to be in response to folks who like to thump their chests and show off their awards. But, as a long-time Cub Scouter I see this as doing a disservice to the Cub Scouting program and the Cub Scout leaders who put time and effort into their positions.

 

I would point out that in a well-run pack the Tiger Cub, Wolf and Bear, and Webelos Den Leader positions are specialties with different duties. As well, the Pack Trainer, Committee Members, and Assistant Den Leaders each have duties that don't really overlap yet would not be differentiated in the planned award system. While I'm sure there are many instances of pencil-whipping the awards for people filling positions, the checksheets for the awards demonstrate the work involved to serve in one of these Cub Scouting positions and where someone meets the requirements in their area of service they should be so recognized. The different awards and knots do that and allow the pack's leaders a way of rewarding adults who have stepped up and gone above just showing up.

 

Perhaps the committee felt there was a need to seek the lowest common denominator for awards. I get the feeling from the different things passed down from the National office that that may be where Cub Scouting will be in the next 5 or 10 years.(This message has been edited by JustAnotherScouter)

[Tampa Turtle]

This has been said before but knots seem different between cubbing and scouting. Cubbies like to see the bling...it means you must be important somehow. Scouting is seems silly. (other than Eagle and Religious and a couple others...)

[Tampa Turtle]

JustAnotherScouter,

 

It is in the nature of committees to make changes, needed or not.

[BartHumphries]

So, someday, when they separate the knots again, some people's shirts will suddenly explode with new knots.

[JustAnotherScouter]

Those are good points, TT. I understand the bling and patches fascination, but I don't think this is just that. At least not to the madness that makes us question whether some Scouters are "wannabe generals." The current awards program offers a way to recognize volunteers for trying to master a skill-set and at the same time encourage them to continue.

 

I don't know that blending the awards for adult leaders in Cub Scouting will directly hurt the program, but it may cause those packs looking for a way to recognize leaders to turn to other means that won't be as lasting and that are less connected to the Scouting program. Many if not most Cub Scouters come with no previous scouting experience. Hopefully they'll be encouraged to continue volunteering right into Boy Scouting. Perhaps they'll find more knots there, but it's more likely they'll find their rewards in good campfires and experiences. Cub Scouting begets Boy Scouts, it can also raise up good leaders. We sometimes regret the boys that don't or won't crossover, we shouldn't forget the adults whose help and support we lose along the way as well.

 

As far as explosions of knots, there will still be ways to do that if that's what one's goal is. It'll just be easier to do it in Boy Scouting rather than through, or with less actual involvement in, Cub Scouting.

[Tampa Turtle]

JustAnother,

 

I think we all make too big a deal on knots. When I was a DL I wore them because it meant a lot of work and increased creditably with parents and boys. Scouting seems more based on developing ongoing relationships and skills...it some ways my old worn uniform shirt represents a lot of experience as well.

 

Maybe one giant knot we can wear as a bow-tie.

[Eagle92]

TT,

 

To quote the DOCTOR," Bowties are cool."

[JustAnotherScouter]

"When I was a Den Leader..." That's what I'm lamely attempting to say. A certificate and little patch with an embroidered knot on it can mean a lot at a certain stage in the experience of a Scouter. Perhaps as the Scouter grows older, wiser, and maybe more cynical, then maybe not so much and the reward system can adapt to that.

 

Sometimes, too, rewards aren't only for the person on the receiving end, but are meant to show the organization's desire to recognize hard work towards specific standards.

 

I guess that's why I don't understand what problem the committee sees that needs fixing. Messing with awards for Cub Scouters and handing out inconvenient tiny pins to try and differentiate the same knot just seems to make it not worth the time. And if awards become inconvenient then I suspect there will be fewer official awards handed out to the folks that earned them, especially in Cub Scouting.