National is Consolidating Knots

[Eagle92]

Looks like there will be fewer knots, but more devices.

 

from http://scouting.org/training/trainingupdates.aspx

 

 

Awards and Knots

 

The national councils awards committee recently conducted a review of the hundreds of awards presented to Scouts and adults in the BSA. Many recommendations were made to simplify and update procedures, and the awards themselves.

 

Among the recommendations was the update of some awards and/or the knots that represent them on the uniform. These include the training awards and the Cub Scouting awards.

 

For example, to give the award the same recognition as the other top unit leader awards, the Cubmaster Award will become the Cubmasters Key and use the Scouters Key knot. The Cub Scouter and Pack Trainer Awards will use the Scouters Training Award knot. The Tiger Cub, Cub Scout, and Webelos Den Leaders Awards will use the Den Leaders Award knot. Devices to be worn on the knots will be available to indicate which awards, and for which program awards were earned.

 

Scouters who have earned the awards will still be able to wear the old knots as long as they are available.

 

The training team is currently reviewing and updating the requirements for the awards. So watch here for news, but we expect the details in early 2012.

[Jay K]

That will make for some drab, colorless, shirts.

[SeattlePioneer]

A bad idea, in my opinion.

[Eagle92]

SP,

 

Personally I think the bad idea is not allowing older training to be used for J2E.

 

That and folks who met the Trained Strip requirements using older courses/requirements during their tenure having to reearn the trained strip whenever courses/requirements change.

 

 

 

 

[moxieman]

I'm disappointed as I HATE those little devices. Why can't they come-up with some sort of soft rubber backing for them. The two I have on my Key knot (Scoutmaster and Commissioner) keep poking me in the chest.

 

And yes, I'll gladly take some Extra Sharp Cheddah with my "whine".

[skeptic]

Can surely tell who has not been around forever. It is basically going back to the original way of doing it. There were no Cub specific knots for years, they were simply Scouter knots with a device. I have three devices, a scout and commissioner device on the training knot, and the scout device on the key. I never understood the reason for the Cubbing array anyway, as they were the same awards, just in a different area. There were no special knots for senior scout leaders; they wore the related device.

 

Will help a bit with the clutter; but there are so many other new knots, that it will still often look like a full dress military officer at times.

 

Right now, I am trying to decide if I should wear the West knot, as it was given in my name, rather than me giving the money. One of my elderly Scouter friends, who has only Scouting as his family, donated insurance money from his wife's death and put about 6 or 7 of his long time friends on the certificates. So, I guess I should put the knot on, just to respect his recognition. I had been given another one in honor of one of my past Eagles who was killed in an Air Force training accident years ago; but never felt like I should wear the knot. Just have the cert and so on in my memory box.

 

Am always torn about wearing them, but have one shirt with them all, for special activities. Others have none or some.

[Basementdweller]

Ahhhh, The old guys will always have more knots than me now....

 

 

I am just kidding for the record. I think it is a good thing to reduce adult awards. No more central american generals running around.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Well I admit I do have mixed emotions on this. On one had it is less clutter. On the other hand the knots will become collector's items. Anyway it gave me incentive to turn in the paperwork for the TCDL and CSDL knots tonite. I'll buy a couple of each, but only wear the CSDL knot. I hate the devices too, and no longer wear them as they a pain to put on and wear. TCDL knots are going in drawer.

 

 

EDITED: actually upon reflection, put them all in the drawer. I really don't kneed anymore knots on the uniform. Sea Scouts got it right:6 knots max.

 

Also just realized their is no TC device currently in national supply(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[UCEagle72]

I wonder if they will make the Cubmaster "key" take three years, like it did back when I earned it in 1987?

 

And yes, Skeptic, some of us do remember ...

 

And Moxie, you can buy those soft rubber backings for about $0.02 at most sewing stores.

(This message has been edited by UCEagle72)

[SeattlePioneer]

Personally, I take great pride in my Tiger Cub Den Leader knot. The sunny orange color stands out from other knots, at least to my eyes.

 

And I use that knot when I'm teaching the Tiger Cub Den Leader Training and summer Tiger Twilight Camp in the hope that additional adults will be motivated to become Den Leaders.

[Eamonn]

"And Moxie, you can buy those soft rubber backings for about $0.02 at most sewing stores"

Failing that, I have a "Stab proof vest" that I have to wear for work. They cost a little over $400.00 each.

I'm happy that a lot of the clutter will be gone.

Also glad that if I ever buy a new shirt that I'm not going to have to spend almost as much on knots as the shirt costs.

Ea.

[fred8033]

Devices ... If they are those pin with a backing ..., I'll be going from watching out for russian generals to watching out for scouters wearing devices. Either they don't wash their clothes or they have too much time on their hands.

[Eagle92]

Either they don't wash their clothes or they have too much time on their hands.

 

ROTFLOL

 

[skeptic]

Time? When I have to remove them from my primary uniform, which is the only one on which I use them, it takes all of 2-3 minutes; and of course, the same to put them on again. Have yet to have any problem with them either sticking me, or falling off. Year pins, now they occasionally come off for some reason. Also have to remove name tag and OA ribbon. Guess I have too much time.

 

 

[Eagle707]

"I'll be going from watching out for russian[sic] generals to watching out for scouters wearing devices."

 

Call me sanctimonious but I would encourage you to take the time you spend judging fellow Scouters and put that time into serving your unit. Your Scouts need your attention a lot more than another person's uniform does. Some Scouters with a lot of knots can be less-than-admirable but one of the worst Scouters I have ever seen did not have any square knots. It goes both ways.

 

If you see Scouters with several devices on their Scouter's Keys, try to learn something from them instead of condemning them. The Scouter's Key is not a "gimme" and I've learned something from every Key recipient I've encountered.