No CC Knot?

[BadenP]

Plowboy

 

Listen, I really understand where you are coming from. The hardest thing I ever had to do in scouting was to step down as crew advisor like you these kids were my kids who I had guided for over 9 years. In my case the new advisors were two of my original crew who had been with me since 14 and had since finished college and become quite the outdoors enthusiasts as well as husband and wife. They are doing a great job(they trade off being Advisor and Assoc Advisor) and I knew they would which was why I recommended them in the first place. It is hard to move on sometimes but as someone once said to me "change is what keeps us young." No one here is questioning your intentions don't take any comments made here personally ever. Good Luck.

[moosetracker]

Plowboy - I hope you do stay posting. The more you post the more people will know who you are and where you are coming from.. You seem like the sort of hardworking individual who will earn the respect of most as they get to know you and your struggles..

 

True there will always be a few that need to put in a dig here and there, but then you will get to know who they are and not care a twit about what they have to say..

 

Most here just love the program, and get grumpy about people who are not here for the right reasons. They are protecting their virtual castle. But, when they hear from you and know that you are fighting as hard as they are in the trenches, you will get alot of warm hearted friendly advice.

[Plowboy]

Thanks. My goal as CC is to get some good chairs in place for key committee activities and be there to coach, delegate and praise/motivate. I'm seeing several areas that are running much smoother and with greater impact than before. Just today I stopped by our council office to submit new applications. The process with them now is more a formality. We know what we are doing and the total effort in that one area is a tenth of what it was. This gives more time for leading the boys. I'm super excited about the Wolf program this year. I've already mapped out my den meetings for the year and we don't start for another 2+ months. Our leadership team is making a difference and is a healthy group. We've only begun. I've got a great den of boys and see career Scouts in most of them already.

 

Can you tell I'm a Type A guy?

[ScoutNut]

>>"I'll work towards my DL knots as I go."

[moosetracker]

YOU WAS ROBBED!.. I even went to look up the Training award knot, it is for everyone in a unit.. But, does not apply to cub scouts all the other units, but not CS!

 

Maybe it is because of the Pack trainer, but still like you said, not many Packs have a Pack Trainer, and everyone then fills in helping with the training.

 

[ScoutNut]

>>"YOU WAS ROBBED!.. I even went to look up the Training award knot, it is for everyone in a unit.. But, does not apply to cub scouts all the other units, but not CS!"

[moosetracker]

Sorry ScoutNut.. Just some friendly banter.. You picked up on the comment Plowboy made of

>>"I'll work towards my DL knots as I go."

[ScoutNut]

Sorry, fuzzy head, can't breathe.

 

The DL, Cubmaster, Pack Trainer, and Cub Scouter ARE ALL training award knots.

 

The other areas of BSA (Boy Scout, Varsity, Venturing, Roundtable Staff, various Commissioner roles, and District Committee) also have their own specific training awards.

 

The awards that you are nominated for, and the awards for donations, are separate things, and I believe Cub Scouters can receive them all.

[Eagle92]

Plowman,

 

#1 WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

 

#2 A you can guess there are different approaches to knots. I've noticed three schools of thought in regards to knots: the "wear what you got school," the "don't wear any school", and the "Sea Scout School" (max of 6 knots at a time).

 

There are reasons why these schools exist. With the "wear what you got" rationale is simple, you worked hard, have been recognized, you wear it. For unit leaders, it can build trust with new parents, show other leaders that you have "been there, done that," and is a nice way of saying thank you. BUT you do have folks going knot crazy, whose sole purpose is to get as many knots as possible. Plus there is a feeling of abuse by some with those knots affiliated with money, i.e James E West Fellowship, NESA Lifetime, and Philmont Training Knot. Also sometimes the knots can make you look like a banana republic general.

 

With the "Don't wear any" school, they think the knots take focus away form the youth, have seen folks focus solely on the knots, and know of people who have bought their knots.

 

For whatever reason, Sea Scouts and their leaders are now limited to 6 knots max on their SBDs and Summer Whites, and no knots on their working uniforms.

 

Me personally, I've seen folks plop down money for West knots. heck one guy plopped down $4K so that his entire family would wear one, so I've seen a CS wearing one. But I also seen that knot used to recognize folks. I know of several units who collected money to recognize a long term scouter, or a retiring one. I also know of 1 gentlemen who bequeathed a large sum so that every Eagle Scout in the council that year, I think about 35-55, got a West Fellowship in their name to congratulate them. While I do wear everything I have on most of my uniforms, both knots and other patches, I do like the "clean" look of my Sea Scout uniform of 6 knots, no Temp or jambo insignia. But I admit I do miss my OA flap on it.

 

 

[CHLees3rd]

Hey Eagle92,

 

I think there are only two types of Scouters with regards to knots. Those who wear them and those who do not. I don't consider the Sea Scout limit of six to be its own type because I have seen many Sea Scouters in uniform that count the knots they wear like this: one, two, three, four, five, six, six, six, six, six, six, six.....yep, only six knots! LOL

 

Chazz

[lone77wulf]

I think there's a two-fold reason for the knot program in the BSA as a whole (and because of this there's conflict over what to wear), and it reaches all the way back to the first knots.

 

The first knots made were: The Honor Medal, Silver Buffalo, Antelope, and Beaver, Eagle Scout, Ses Scout Quartermaster, Scoutmaster's Key, and the Scouter's Training Award. So, from the very beginning, we had a mixutre of "presented" and "earned by requirement" awards.

 

The knot program has always had these 2 faces. So, as the Cub knot program moved away from the Boy Scout knot program, the knots increased from 2 to the current batch of 6, with requirements for each one being different.

 

I think the National Committees responsible for these awards realize there are goals that exist for each of these positions, so a leader operating the optimal program will have an experience like moosetracker had. In our district, we check at the Roundtable in November to see which leaders finished the awards for presentation at the District Dinner. Most units have leaders who earned the awards YEARS prior, because they did everything requried to benefit the boys, not realizing there was an award.

 

I've also seen leaders who get the requirements for the various awards surrounding their positions as the enter them to see what things National has chosen as important. I'm giving each of my new UCs a copy of the requirements for Commissioner's Key, the Arrowhead award, Distinguished Commissioner and the new Excellence in Unit Service Award. Why? Because it shows them what's important in the job in the span of the National program. If they earn them, great. If they don't, still great, as long as they're delivering good service.

 

So, in light of Plowboy's question, the question that comes to my mind is "Why doesn't National feel that the Committee Chair position has unique enough goals to warrant its own award" It could be a device on the Cub Scouter award, or on its own, but its a valid question, and one I'd wonder about as well.

[Eagle92]

CH,

 

One of the reasons why some leaders wear more than the 6 is that they are wearing pre2002 uniforms. Since 2002, the 6 knots max has been the rule.

 

There are of course other reasons as well, and it has to due with history.

 

You see from the 1920'-50s or 60s, Sea Scouts wore modified USN uniforms. Modifications included removing one stripe of piping, add the First Class Anchors, aka "bugs," to the corners of the sail flap and cover, CSP and unit number etc. The when Sea Scouts became Sea Explorers, units could have "Distinct Identity Uniforms" that they could create. While some Ships continued with the traditional uniforms, some modified the traditional uniform to their specific locations, and others created their own. To paraphrase someone on the SeaScout.org boards, this resulted in a lot of "piratical outfits."

 

So in 2002, the national sea scout committee selected uniforms that must be worn for regional and national events. Units could still make their own, although it is discouraged, but to attend events, whites, blues, and workign uniforms as described in the book are required. Now those are based upon the traditional Sea Scout uniforms, but they did away with a few things, and that ticked off some folks, especially those units that never went away from the 1920s uniforms. To further stir the waters, national supply hasn't really kept up with stuff, so soem things can only be purchased via Ships' Stores (who are AWESOME I might add), or still have things labeled Sea Explorers.

 

Emb21 has a great website that can provide even more info than I can.

 

[Old_OX_Eagle83]

The adult recognition program, like any other, is not without opportunities for improvement. However, like all BSA recognition programs, its designed to encourage people to step up, do the right thing, and then put that person forward as a positive example.

 

Why no CC knot, I dont know. However, I will so no committee position as a knot. The Pack Trainer is not technically a committee position, but a program position. The Cub Scouter Knot is what you should be working toward.

 

Basement Dweller, You may want to take a moment to consider the effectiveness of your communication, as I don't think you came accross the way you intended.