No CC Knot?

[Plowboy]

With virtually every position in the Cub Pack having a knot including the Pack Trainer, which makes no sense to me, why not the Committee Chair? I took over CC in Feb and can tell you that I've learned a ton, put in lots of hours, and have as much impact on the Pack as the CM. We work well together. So why is this important and demanding role excluded when a CM has two unit leader knots that can be earned?

[moosetracker]

Plowboy - be prepared. Some people don't care for the knots.. Personnally I am fine with people who wear them, but was never big on wanting to jump the hoops to earn any myself.

 

As to your question. Not sure why, but you can earn any knot for a committee member (a CC is a committee member with a title), my son just went after a training knot open to anyone.. And there are other awards that a committee chair can earn (sorry don't know what it is exactly) but it is something people in your pack nominate you for, and they choose from the packs who nominate their CC based on the write-ups and how the unit is functioning. Then you get the award at the district dinner.

[UCEagle72]

Cub Scouter Award is the knot for "everyone else."

 

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/square-knots.asp#cub

 

[Basementdweller]

Oh I got the giggles.....Important and Demanding??????

 

If it is knots your after be a den leader there are three available and then you will know important and demanding.

 

 

[FScouter]

The problem with third party websites is the info is so often out of date. They copy the info from BSA but then rarely update it.

The most current info can be found on the BSA web site:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/resources/CSLeaderRecAwards.aspx

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-54.pdf

 

[moosetracker]

Basement - very unkind.. You get out of a job what effort you put into it.

 

A DL, may work hard, if they take pride in offering a great program to thier Den. But, they may not do much if they wait until a Den meeting and wing it, pass out awards like candy, or cancel or fail to show up to half the meetings, or are in it for their own kid and could care less about any of the others..

 

While a CC is considered very succussful if they have a well oiled machine, that is running so smooth all they need to do is host a committee meeting once a month. Truth is, the lack of willing volunteers or the issues of the Adult leaders that do not want to run the program right, can have a CC have a very full plate (if they in turn do not pass all the responsibility to the CM, but in fact work hard to support the CM.)

 

You do not know the dynamics of Plowboy's Pack..

[Basementdweller]

Awe......

 

2nd post in a forum about serving youth asking or complaining that the CC doesn't have a knot specifically for them.

 

 

?????????

 

 

 

[Plowboy]

Was Tiger den leader last year. Wolf leader for two dens this year and asistant for new Tigers. So that means I'm DL for two dens, ADL for Tigers, and CC. I'm giving more than my share. Believe me.

 

Don't like knots? Don't open threads about them. Easy enough. I get it. Doesn't mean I have to agree.

[moosetracker]

I guess I missed the other.. Truth is Basement your beef is not with a CC who is doing his job. I know you complain about parents who are unwilling to step up and help, so would love volunteers who are helping..

 

Your beef is with the knot.. Or people seeking a knot.. I know you feel the true reward is in the eyes of the boys you do the program for.. At least that is what I have heard from you on countless thread in various ways..

 

So just attack the knot, or the fact he is seeking a knot rather then being satisfied with a job well done, or the happy faces on the youth.. But don't attack the position, or the OP who you really do not know how much or little he is really doing..

 

Personally, if someone does a great job, and wants a knot too.. No harm. Our old COR had 4 or 5 rows of knots, and deserved every one she wore.. My husband has 3. He had the Eagle knot, and wanted to even out with 3 knots to fill out the row, thought it was lopsided with one.. My son is now seeking knots.. Not sure about his reasoning it may be due to the lopsided 1 knot of Eagle like his Dad, or he wants to outdo his Dad, or he is looking for ways to earn respect from the adults who still treat him as a kid. Both earn their knots by doing, then looking and saying "hey, didn't I do all that already?".. Husband missed some cub scout knot by one item.. As we were leaving the Pack, he was told (Hey if you had only gone to roundtables a few times you would have..." Oh well..)

 

Anyway, sometimes the knot is not the whole reason the person is doing the job. There may be something behind it other then self-glorification.. That is OK.. Go for it. Problem comes in if someone just looks at the checklist of the knot award, and goes shallowly through the motions just jumping hoops for a knot.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[Basementdweller]

thank you for your service.

 

The original post came accrossed as a new CC looking for an award.

[Basementdweller]

moose and I cross posted

 

She has probably knows me better than I do..........

 

What she says if what I believe and it is accurate.

 

 

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

One of your jobs as CC is to recruit needed adult volunteers. It sounds like you badly need to do that part of your job and find, at least, two new Wolf den leaders (Tigers really do not need an assistant den leader if you are using the BSA Tiger program).

 

There is a reason why BSA asks you to only hold one position in a unit.

 

I was wondering why you are upset that there is no knot for CC, yet state that having one for a Pack Trainer makes no sense?

 

Being a trainer, especially one for a specific Pack is also quite an important role.

 

One thing to remember about these knots - They are TRAINING awards. Basically, the requirements for all of the training awards are to stay in your REGISTERED position for one or two years, become fully trained for your registered position, and do the job of your registered position.

 

If you want a training award, earn the Cub Scouter Award. It relates quite well to the role of CC.

[Plowboy]

Good questions.

 

The other Tiger leader was AWOL most of the time. He resigned, so I'm stepping in until we can ID a new leader. I've not combined the dens as I'm really hopeful that someone steps up to replace. My goal was not to be a Wolf DL at all, but even with some intense recruiting of parents, we've made no progress in even getting one to rise to ADL. It is sad.

 

The idea with the ATL is provide temporary help to the new TL's. I was tossed into it last year with little guidance. Knowing what I know now, I could have done a lot better job. I want to spend the first three months with the TL to help her get some feet beneath herself.

 

I have two sons. One will be a Tiger this year. The other is a Wolf. I wanted to hang back in Tiger for a second term and follow my second son through the program. Not finding DL's has changed that. I'll work towards my DL knots as I go. I think they demonstrate to the boys that you are never too old to learn, grow, and achieve. Just like anything, people/Scouts see what you put into things and what you don't. To me, the knots are just another tool for being an example to the boys. The most important example? No. But I'll take advantage of every tool the BSA provides.

 

We don't make much use of the Pack Trainer role. Given our fight for just having any DL's, Pack Trainer is more of a luxury for us. I shouldn't belittle the position. My appologies.

 

My original post was more of an observation after spending about six hours on Father's Day doing CC duties. At the end of it, I was putting in my paperwork for the TL knot and thought about how much I've had to learn for the CC role. Seemed like a lot more to me, but it probably depends on the Pack and the experience of the leader. There was a lot of new ground for me as the CC, but I've taken it head on like my TL role and my new Wolf DL role.

[BadenP]

Plowboy

 

You have to remember you are doing this for the boys not for self recognition, because if that is your goal then you should step down and become a den leader and earn all the knots you want. You know I am now a CC/COR for my crew, I earned all my recognition while I was a Crew Advisor for prior years and don't need any now or even then. Remember you have a committee to help with all the paperwork, use them.

[Plowboy]

Thanks for all the advice and lectures. I was just pointing out a percieved gap in the BSA leader knot program. If you think I'm putting in all of this time for a knot on a shirt, you are nuts. Even more important than THE boys are MY boys. My rewards are in their skill/character development. I could go on and on about what we inherited from prior leadership in Feb and what it is now. The Pack was days away from losing their recharter when I stepped in. We had unregistered DL's everywhere because the paperwork was never dealt with properly. We had several unregistered Scouts for the same reason. I've spent two months cleaning up our roster. I was given ZERO paperwork from the former CM/CC... which was a husband/wife team that phoned it in the last year or more. We had no budget, no regular leaders meetings, and no pack calendar. Instead of doing it all, I've established different committee chairs to delegate responsibilities. We aren't even done yet with the overhaul. Everyone feels we are healthier than ever and that a family is forming. This isn't because of me, but because of a core group that cares deeply about our program and our boys.

 

So you can stop with the posts about my intentions. My rewards are the hugs and thank yous I get from my sons and occasionally from the other cubs or parents. Knots are part of the BSA program. If you don't like it, take it up with them. My job as a DL, CC, and parent is to take full advantage of what the BSA has to offer our Scouts and leaders. I personally like the program. Value is what you see in it and take from it. If all you see is self recognition and shallow chest puffery, then that's what it is. Doesn't make your point of view the only right one.

 

Unnecessary flaming is why I've really stayed off of forums anymore. Had too many years of it. Was hoping a Scouting forum where character is a core value would be different.