Uniform (rant)

[artjrk]

Pardon me while I rant for a moment.

 

 

The other night three scouts from my Troop (one was Vice-chief of Elections and one was Vice Chief of Admin as well as our SPL) went to conduct a OA troop election at a neighboring Troop. They were in full uniform from the waist up as is normal and acceptable for our troop. When they get there the Scoutmaster infroms them that their Troop is a full uniform Troop and directs them to their uniform exchange room to see if the can find some pants. When none are found that fit, (these guys are quite tall) he says "oh well, I said my peace" and they go ahead and continue with the elections.

 

Meanwhile the former SM comes up to the Parent/Adult accompanying the election team, and goes on and on about if he was the current SM he wouldn't even allow the boys in. That they should be setting an example as "leaders". The parent was very good about and kept his temper while making a simple reply. "At least they are here and actively doing their part and serving the OA"

 

What get's my goat is these boys are taking more of their time to serve and what they get in response is criticism about how their appearance doesn't meet up with the others opinion. Since when is the "uniform" more important than the actions and values these boys portrayed?

 

Side note: I am all for wearing the uniform and wearing it correctly. But I also understand cost issues for some of our families, hence why we adhere to the waist up model.

 

[sherminator505]

My troop growing up was one that only insisted on waist-up uniforming. I don't think that affected the quality of the Scouting experience we received.

 

I think this should be viewed by the OA officers here as a learning experience. Some troops that they work with will actually scrutinize the appearance of their uniforms more than the quality of their leadership. It may not be right or sound right, but that's the reality.

 

So even though it is not in their troop custom, they may want to get uniform pants or at least wear dress pants instead of jeans the next time they visit a troop, because for some, that is an expectation of leaders at the District level, which is what these young men are.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[nolesrule]

I agree with sherm. The scouts should consider it a learning experience.

 

When representing the OA, the lodge might want to have a policy on uniforming for conducting OA elections if they don't already, as an elections team is making an impression on the scouts of the units they are visiting, and they are invited guests of the unit they are visiting. What a scout does in his own unit and what he does when representing the OA are two entirely separate matters and need to be treated as such.

 

It seems obvious that the leaders of the unit being visited did not want someone setting a poor uniform example for the scouts of their troop, although in the end they allowed it anyway. At least the troop tried to find them temporary pants instead of kicking them out. With the exception of the rant by the former scoutmaster, I don't see an issue with how it was handled, unless the visiting scouts were berated in front of the troop they were visiting and not taken aside quietly for the discussion.

[Eagle92]

I'll be honest, I want a fully uniformed election and camp promo team as the OA is Scouting's honor society, and they are expected to set the example, and that does include wearing a complete uniform. I also understand financial situations, and I'll address that in a minute.

 

I do like how the first adult, the current SM, handled it. He tried to solve the problem by lending/giving a pair a pants to the folks if they could be found. That's trying to be part of the solution IMHO.

 

I do agree the 2nd adult, the former SM, went way overboard.

 

Good response by the adult accompanying the team.

 

Now the financial issues I said I'll address. I was one of those poor Scouts who had a choice: a complete uniform or go camping. OBVIOUSLY that's a no brainer: GO CAMPING. But there are some ways to help solve the problem.

 

One way is to get a uniform exchange going on the unit and/or district level. My troop did that, and that was how I finally got official pants.

 

For 3 years I did wear green field shorts, green pants, and Vietnam era bdu pants when camping. But once I was able to get a pair of official pants, I rarely wore them again.

 

Thrift stores are another way to get uniforms. Heck I never had a new uniform until I worked for supply and was issued one. Everything i had came from uniform exchange or thrift stores.

 

Ebay and Craigslist are other routes to get uniforms.

 

Good luck.

[Stosh]

My hat goes off to the SM and his response.

 

I have had OA members show up for elections with NO UNIFORM at all. Blue jeans and a high school hoodie. Not impressed at all... neither were my boys who are used to a full uniform standard for the troop. THEY mentioned it, I did not. The OA member did not give an answer to his lack of uniform when asked by the boys. Needless to say it left a bad taste in the mouths of the boys. 3 were elected, none did the ordeal.

 

Your mileage may vary

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

art - My daughter and I have the same tug-of-war with the kelly green venturing shirt. Because uniforming is not a method of venturing, and our crew uses t-shirts for uniforms, it's hard for her to accept that in situations where she is representing the council, the class-A uniform allows her to command respect. Without it, her colleagues become the "invisible officer's association."

 

Yes the way the SM's handled it was rude. But when your scouts are representing their lodge, they want to do so in a way that commands the most possible respect from the units they visit. The SM's that don't say anything may still judge your boys. OA reps that look sharp for those few minutes in front of a troop or roundtable may actually get SM's who work a troop's schedule around lodge events. Those who don't may get boys who earn a sash and then disappear.

 

So see what you can do about getting these boys uniform pants or shorts, socks, and workboots that are clean but look like they know the meaning of service.

[John-in-KC]

A Scout is Friendly and Courteous.

 

The lead member of this E-team, in coordinating in advance with the SPL and/or SM, should have asked such questions. When you represent Boy Scouting vice your Troop, there is a higher bar.

 

OTOH, the SM should have talked quietly with the Chapter Adviser in real time, maybe even inviting the youth members to return some other day with good cheer.

 

No one was right in this case.

[The Blancmange]

 

Meanwhile the former SM comes up to the Parent/Adult accompanying the election team, and goes on and on about if he was the current SM he wouldn't even allow the boys in.

OK, fine. OA team turns around and goes home. Problem solved. Membership in uniform police extended for another term.

[OldGreyEagle]

My thought is the OA Election Team representing the Honor Society of the Boy Scouts, should be in full complete uniform

 

The problem is, when the uniform becomes the focus, then everything else suffers in deference to bruised egos.

 

Given the reaction the OA team received, and the comments reflected here there seems to be only one solution. Dump the uniform, its such a bone of contention and who is wearing what "illegal" garnishment, it just may be time to just say the uniform is a relic of the past and its time to excise the vestigal organ known as the uniform

 

Then we can concentrate in what's important

[SR540Beaver]

I'm a Chapter Adviser. The boys in my chapter who participate in elections and ceremonies know that they always wear a complete uniform when representing OA. Period. We are the honor society of scouting. I don't care what the boys in my chapter do at their own unit, but when they are representing the chapter and lodge, they will wear a full uniform.

[jrush]

Sure, the OA representatives could've gotten upset at the uniform police, turned around and gone home...

 

Another option would've been for them to tell the SM "you're right, we're representing the BSA's honor society, we should be doing elections in Class A's", and for the accompanying adult to tell the former SM the same thing.

 

The BSA is a uniform organization, and appearances matter.

 

[desertrat77]

Art, I hear what you are saying. However, the three scouts have stepped beyond the arena of their home troop and are now serving in highly visible leadership positions. As such, they have to meet the standards.

 

I'm all for wide latitude in troop autonomy, but once a scout or scouter steps up to district, council, or OA leadership role, they gotta look and act the part of BSA spokesmen.

[moosetracker]

Luckily no one has said anything to me or my training group for our District.. I am happy to get trainers.. I will beg and plead and am thrilled for people to step up to be trainers.. Now will I in any way shape or form say.. "Thanks for stepping up.. Now go out and buy the full uniform.."

 

No way.. I guess my training group should be the top notch representatives.. I see arguement for that.. But, until I have my fill of trainers where I can be picky (most likely not in my 3 year tenure).. I will not bite the hand offering me help.

 

Neither will any of our key-3 force full uniform. At least not right now.. It is definatly more, Please, Please help.. I don't care if you come in your bathrobe!.. (Well maybe I would care if that happened.. just saying, desperate times calls for more lax standards)..

[Eagle707]

There were mistakes all around at this meeting. The leaders were out-of-line in how they handled the situation: this reaction was over-the-top and was rude to the Arrowmen conducting the election. However, their point was valid: the Scouts were mistaken in conducting an OA election without a full uniform. The OA covers this in the Guide for Officers and Advisers:

 

"The lodge, through the unit elections committee,

should work with the troop/team leader in establishing

the actual time and place to conduct the election. The

Order should be represented by a two- or three-member

team from the lodge or chapter unit elections committee.

All election team members must be trained and in

proper uniform during the election."

 

There is only one "proper" BSA uniform so, for lodge functions, I echo the others who suggest having the Scouts check eBay or just purchase a pair of Scout shorts. Shorts are cheaper than pants and, if they wear knee socks with their shorts, they'll be warm no matter what.

 

 

 

 

[gcnphkr]

Perhaps lax standards result in desperate times.

 

At some point people need to start setting an example and expecting it to be set.

 

As for the OP. I don't see a problem with the SM trying to get them pants. The old SM was out of line in several ways, most importantly in undermining the current SM. The current SM should have set expectations when election was set up. On the other hand, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect an election team to understand the need to wear a proper uniform.

 

As for a the lack pants being "normal and acceptable" for any unit...I guess it isn't any worse than the other seven methods being optional.(This message has been edited by jet526)