Eagle Mentor Pin on Scout Uniform

[TAHAWK]

"That is right up there with hanging up on a Scout who calls asking if you will counsel him on a Merit Badge.  After all, one-on-one telephone conversations are expressly prohibited."

 

i could never bring myself to do that.  i did ask that they have someone on the line the next time.  

 

Nor did I erase emails addressed ony to me.

 

Rules are easy if the rule-maker knows nothing about the facts on the groud.  Like "stay put" in each and every wilderness survival situation.  

[5thGenTexan]

We have a new CM that knows it all because, well you know.

He poked my kid the other day and stated loudly, "he can't that have that patch there, you know".

Its a Whittlin' Chip patch on his right pocket flap on a Webelos uniform.  

Maybe it can be there, maybe it cant.  I have seen the arguments on that one.

I DO know that the minute he poked my kid it fused that patch to the shirt more firmly that badge magic and it just wont come off now.

[jcousino]

If he truly poked (touched)the child that is physical abuse of a youth member under youth protection and he should be reported if he want to get all legal about scout rules.

 

[mrjohns2]

10 hours ago, jcousino said:

If he truly poked (touched)the child that is physical abuse of a youth member under youth protection and he should be reported if he want to get all legal about scout rules.

This is not at all true. It may not have been appropriate, but is not physical abuse. 

[qwazse]

Way to take something to the dark side @jcousino. I’m sure @5thGenTexanwould have acted and not posted if the “poke” were a physical assault.

The CM is a an uninitiated insignia wonk. That’s all.

[elitts]

18 hours ago, jcousino said:

If he truly poked (touched)the child that is physical abuse of a youth member under youth protection and he should be reported if he want to get all legal about scout rules.

 

This is nonsense with absolutely zero basis in either the YP rules or common sense.

[5thGenTexan]

4 hours ago, qwazse said:

Way to take something to the dark side @jcousino. I’m sure @5thGenTexanwould have acted and not posted if the “poke” were a physical assault.

The CM is a an uninitiated insignia wonk. That’s all.

Yeah, if it was true "physical assault" I probably would have gone to jail in my uniform.

[jcousino]

The comments were not meant to go anywhere but to point out the that if this person is so focused being badge legal (wearing of toton chip flap ) Poking a child could also taken way out out of this meaning. If you one want to push the idea of battery.( unwanted touching of one person by an other) john

 

[mrjohns2]

11 minutes ago, jcousino said:

The comments were not meant to go anywhere but to point out the that if this person is so focused being badge legal (wearing of toton chip flap )

Thanks for the clarity as I now see your point. I first thought you were crazy, but you were like if this adult was so extreme in his patch policing, his actions could be taken the same way. 

[Eagle94-A1]

38 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

Thanks for the clarity as I now see your point. I first thought you were crazy, ...

Sadly there are people who would consider it battery and try to press charges.

True story, a long time Scouter was retired and worked for a Scout Shop for a little extra money. A brand new Cub Scout and his mom came in and was getting uniform, books, etc. Scouter showed the new Cub how to wear a neckerchief by rolling it up, putting the slide on it, PLACING THE NECKERCHIEF AND SLIDE ON THE SCOUT (emphasis), and  pushing the slide up. This was done in the Scout Shop with other people and the mother present.

Mom freaks out and files a complaint against the Scouter for inappropriate touching. Guy loses his job, gets placed in the IVF, and law enforcement got involved. I got called into the office and told that i was to no longer put neckerchiefs on anyone because of this incident.

[jcousino]

yes , the world can get crazy for no cause. and sadly you have little recourse.

[yknot]

I had worked a lot with kids as a teen and young adult and then sort of took a hiatus until my own kids came along. It was a break of maybe 10 years. In that time, the world went from touch to no touch. 

[SiouxRanger]

On 7/21/2021 at 12:22 PM, TAHAWK said:

"That is right up there with hanging up on a Scout who calls asking if you will counsel him on a Merit Badge.  After all, one-on-one telephone conversations are expressly prohibited."

 

i could never bring myself to do that.  i did ask that they have someone on the line the next time.  

 

Nor did I erase emails addressed ony to me.

 

Rules are easy if the rule-maker knows nothing about the facts on the groud.  Like "stay put" in each and every wilderness survival situation.  

I forward emails from a scout to a parent and let them know I require parents to be copied on any email to me.  (SM or other troop leader will do too, but parent is best.)

Edited July 29, 2021 by SiouxRanger
changed "those emails" to "emails from"

[SiouxRanger]

The Eagle Mentor pins I have received, I received at Eagle Courts of Honor.

As a good scouter and troop leader I wear my uniform to Eagle Courts of Honor. I am to stand as an adult example.

The Mentor pins have been pinned on my uniform.

Perhaps I should pause the proceedings, change into a suit coat, receive a Mentor Pin, re-pause the proceeding to change into...

Seriously?

Does that not denigrate the significance and value of the uniform???

If the uniform is acceptable to accept the awarding of a Mentor Pin it should be suitable for wearing it there ever after.

I wear my uniform to troop meetings-I could hardly imagine the reaction of a scout who recently awarded me their Mentor pin-many times to the exclusion of their own Father-who does not see me wearing his pin.  What do they think of me and what do they think I think of them?

I did not get into Scouting adult leadership to disappoint children.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by SiouxRanger
CHANGED "stand am am adult" to stand as an adult"

[The Latin Scot]

I think that if the youth are 'disappointed' because a leader isn't wearing his Eagle Mentor pins on his uniform, it's only because they needed to be taught better principles more clearly.

First of all, if you were to change into a suit coat to receive the mentor pin and change back after, that would do the exact OPPOSITE of denigrate the significance of the uniform - rather, it would be a powerful demonstration of how much one honors the uniform and its proper wearing, and if anything, would only serve to increase its esteem and respect. 

I taught my Webelos Scouts about the importance of wearing the uniform correctly out of both respect for the uniform, the organization it represents, and themselves as members of this august body. I taught them about how the military is very strict about its uniform guidelines, as are police officers and other important service organizations, and I made sure to ALWAYS wear mine correctly. And they followed that same tone of respect for their uniforms while with me and when they moved on to Scouts BSA; my boys (bless their hearts) were known for ALWAYS being remarkably well-uniformed.

As they started earning the rank of Eagle, they would ask me beforehand about the mentor pins, since I had taught them in Cub Scouts that they weren't for uniform wear. So I would tell them that I trusted them to be clever enough and creative enough to come up with a solution. And every single one of them did! Most would present them in lovely little jewelry boxes. They were never disappointed, because they were taught to be prepared. That's what Scouting, properly done, is all about.

But when my Den Chief finally had his Eagle Scout ceremony, he had already just finished boot camp with the Marines - and he made it very clear to me that we would be appearing in his military uniform. So we had his Scout uniform displayed on a mannequin we found, perfectly arranged and looking very professional. But as we presented him with his medals and neckerchiefs, he pointed out to the audience very maturely that he was not to wear them on his military dress uniform, so we simply handed him the medal in its box, and placed the neckerchief on the mannequin. His example was a potent teaching moment for everybody there, and after that, the quality of uniform wearing in both the troop and all the dens in our adjacent pack improved to the point of nearly universal perfection, especially among my fellow leaders, who up until then were less attentive to the concept as I had been.

The natural consequence of this was that behavior, involvement, and maturity in our units improved dramatically. We never had problems getting the boys to volunteer or participate in activities, they were naturally willing to take the lead on their own troop affairs and advancements, the Cub Scouts were better behaved and more interested in learning, and the adults became more sincere in their commitment to the program. And much of that was because of the fact that the way we present ourselves affects the way we behave; like actors on the stage, our costuming affects the way we play our part.

But these things have to be taught, and I wonder how many leaders are able to effectively communicate these kinds of ideas to young people, and because they find themselves unable or unwilling to do so, end up being a bit too casual or too apathetic about the concept (as with so many other things in Scouting, uniforms being but one part of the much larger whole). And they do so at a cost; the benefits of the appearingly small extra effort go far beyond the Scouts simply "looking good" - it's about feeling good, about feeling right, and allowing that to help build the natural confidence that they will need and use to grow into powerful, effective leaders someday. We trivialize what we do not fully comprehend, but were we to really consider why we do the things we do, we would likely do them a bit better.

Edited July 29, 2021 by The Latin Scot