Knots, to wear or not to wear?

[Eagle92]

great post OGE, gotta look up those two works

[clemlaw]

>>>>Yah, so for da "you earn it, you wear it" crowd, what do yeh feel about an 18 year old ASM wearin' an Eagle rank badge

[clemlaw]

>>>>I'd tell them to turn to the page that states Badges of Rank Are For Youth Members. I'd suggest if he earned Eagle, to get the Eagle knot and wear it.

[Eagle92]

Forgot to add, I'd encourage the ASM to join a Venturing crew as Venturers can wear their Eagle until 21

[Beavah]

Let's go with you "status" argument. My "status" is a Scouter, an adult leader. Hence, I wear adult leader knots.

 

Well, by that the boy's status is "youth member". Hence, he should wear all da awards he earned as a youth member.

 

One difference is that when a youth fills out an application for a unit, he signs on as a Boy Scout, a Sea Scout, a Cub Scout, or a Venturer...

 

Now that's quite a creative stretch, Eagle92.

 

We register youth as part of a particular unit, eh? We also register adults as part of a particular unit and position. No difference. Only at the adult level we add district/council/national registration as an option. There is no generic "scouter" registration in da BSA.

 

Da meaning of "status in the program" is pretty clear unless you're really stretching for a work-around to allow yeh to do what yeh want. Why bother tryin' to come up with such tortured explanations?

 

It's only a guidebook in a kids' program, eh? If yeh feel there's some important goal for youth that is best served by wearin' a bunch of cub scout training knots on your Venturing greens, and if that method is the best one and doesn't create any significant downside for yeh, then just ignore the guidebook and do it. Nobody's goin' to arrest yeh.

 

I think da real issue is that it's really hard to find any significant goal for the youth that wearin' knots from outside your current status actually serves.

 

I suppose da Venturing Advisor could make the new Venturing parent feel more at ease by pointing to his scouters' training knot & device and saying "see, this means I'm fully trained (for Cub Scouting)!" I'm sure da parents will be reassured by that as they send their daughter off on the whitewater kayaking trip.

 

Beavah

 

[Woapalanne]

Well, Bevah, of the "you earned it, you wear it", my good ol' Dad (U.S. Navy WW II, and Troop Committee when I was a Scout) absolutely would have said "Wear it correctly." Just as I say. I have the book and am a UP to myself (not others).

[Eagle92]

Actually I've had CS parents relieved when they ask what the knots mean and I tell them it's "recognition for a misspent youth" and working with boy scouts for too long.

 

But I get your point. I know from personal expereince that someone wearing a STA and Dis Comm Key will make some mistakes in CS programming, even if trained in their new POR

 

 

In all seriousness though, while a parent may not feel comfortable with a venturing leader with a bunch of CS knots, most folks who do have knots do appreciate training, and in all likelihood have done Venturing training if serving in Venturing leader position, and possibly wear a trained patch with the POR patch. They are dedicated to providing service to the youth,and will go out of their way to provide a quality program.

 

Also the recognitions are from the Boy Scouts of America, and while the requirements may specify what PORs are held, the awards are from the Boy Scouts of America, not Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, or Venturing, but the BSA. And thus they are authorized for wear with any BSA uniform. otherwise, why would ther be a Sea Badge knot for uniform wear, when the metal device is worn on the Sea Scout leader unifrom, but not other BSA uniforms, so a knot takes it place? Why create knots for Eagle, AOL, QM, and Silver, and at one time in different colors, unless BSA wanted the knots to be worn on any BSA uniform?

 

Now if BSA wants to limit the # of knots, that's another thing. Right now only Sea Scouts limit the # to 6. And it is "recommended" that WB staff members limit the number to 9.

 

Me personally I don't care what's on the uniform, as long as it is worn correctly. I also think that actions speak louder than words.

 

 

 

 

[clemlaw]

I have to admit, I've been away from scouting for quite a while, and I didn't really know what all the fuss was about.

 

Then, I recently saw a scouter who looked generally disheveled. But he had 20+ knots, extending all the way up to his shoulder.

 

So yes, at some point, someone should have gently taken him aside and pointed out that it looked ridiculous. From this thread, I'm guessing that perhaps someone already had, but the battle lines had already been drawn.

 

So my advice would be to wear your first six or nine (or perhaps even 12 if you have an extra large shirt) with pride. But when you get the next one, maybe it's time to take a couple of those Cub Scout knots off your Venturing shirt.

 

You can always put them in a nice picture frame and proudly display them on your wall at home, as I do with my youth awards. Occasionally, it's nice to show off to someone that I earned Coin Collecting Merit Badge as a Tenderfoot, but that doesn't mean that I would want to wear it in public.

[Basementdweller]

Had a woodbadge staffer have 4 or 5 rows of knots. so that means 16 to 20. Gotta a chuckle when he couldn't fire up his Backpacking stove........

 

He looked pretty ridiculous in my book. I look at it this way, putting all those knots on a uniform proves what or benefits whom?????

 

20 knots is blowing your own horn.

 

Just like the silver wood chuck. The group that is nominated this year is the biggest group of self promoting horn blowers I have ever seen.

 

I will prove my worth by selling popcorn, camping, pinewood derbying and putting on the best program for the boys ever........ BTW after the last time we discussed this I took off my knots except for the Eagle AOL

[BDPT00]

Just for the record, 4 or 5 times 3 doesn't quite equal 16 to 20. Trouble counting to 5? What I just read was that maybe 12 came out to 20.

 

I have a theory. Those critical of Silver Beaver selections have probably never read the requirements. Ever seen the form? If you know someone who qualifies, nominate them. It's the only way to affect the process.

BDPT00

 

 

[clemlaw]

Just for the record, my Scoutmaster as a youth had, IIRC, two knots. And he was the best scoutmaster in the history of the BSA!

[Platypus96]

I don't really understand the arguement here. Think about it rhis way; if you had a scout who had earned his first class badge and was elected patrol leader, would you be happy if he came to troop meetings wereing his old scout badge and a librarian POR patch? How can you ask him to properly display his patches if you do not have all of yours on your uniform? I can understand cutting it off when you run out of space on your shirt, or having a less clutterd shirt to wear camping or less formal meetings, but come COH time, all awards should be seen. However, I also agree that one should only wear program-specific knots, just as a scout should not wear cub scout arrow points on his boy scout shirt (unless he is a weblos who bought a tan shirt). My current scoutmaster only has three knots, AoL, and two cub scoutknots. Personally, I think he should leave it at AoL.

[Woapalanne]

Well, I only have 5 knots. Two from youth programs, and three as a Scouter. I have great respect for those who have served many years, and in many functions for these kids. I'm not jealous of the ones with more knots, on the contrary, I admire their dedication and service.

[Basementdweller]

He wore his 4 across not 3.

[Scoutfish]

Reminds me of a comic I saw once:

 

A decorated general was at a party/ ball and showing his ribbons to a woman. It shoed he was pointing to one particular medal, and the caption was:

 

" And this one is for having the most medals."

 

So, I feel if you earned it and it's not a double listing ( such as a CM patch replaces an ACM patch as opposed to having both - or a 1st class replaces a 2nd class instead of both), then wear it.

 

I was never a scoutmyselgf, but if I was, I would not wear any patch or knot ( other than religious/Eagle/or AOL on my uniform.

 

But you know, the thinkg is this: as long as it is correct....that is all that matters. PERIOD!

 

Now, wether I only wear the latest knot, or up to six is my personal preference. You have your opinions, I have mine.

 

Chances are great that not all of us will have the same opinion, ideas or tastes.

 

Maybe I don't like the kind oif car you drive, the color of your house or the day job you have.

 

If I really have an issue witrh that, then I have the problem. I have issues. I am the one sticking my nose way, way beyond any acceptable boundries.

 

Maybe my troopp doesn't like the style of necker your troop wears?

 

Do you even remotely care. Will you lose sleep at night?

 

Should you?

 

Nah. That's the geat beauti of it! So many different styles of cars, trucks, house designs, tv shows, genres of music, shapes, styles and designs in clothes.

 

Do what suits you. Wear what you like.

 

As long as iyt is correct and falls under uniform guidelines and meets uniform inspection...then who cares what anybody else says or thinks.

 

They don't like it, well...that speaks about them, not you.