Knots, to wear or not to wear?

[mikeknr]

My two cents worth.... I wear five knots, one from my youth and if I'm honest, I used the knot requirements, with the exception of Wood Badge, to give myself something to do when I wasn't working with the yutes. I also started collecting really old BSA knives and rings. This is due to the fact that my Wolfs, Bears and now Webelos were going so far, so fast that it truly left me nothing to do on cold winter nights.

 

So for the sake of my own advancement and training, and for ideas of what to do next I turned to knot activities. As for wearing them I admit they look nice on the uniform and are discussion points as to what the bearer has achieved. I even began collecting retired knots and medals (not for wear of course). Bottom line for me is, I earned it, I wear it and I am on the ground level looking up in admiration. I will not stop when my boy ages out. I am an inch from a James E West fellowship in my council and the day after that I will be donating $1000 to my local District to begin a Wood Badge scholarship for Scouters that otherwise would not be able to afford it. I would then receive the James West knot and possibly the District Award of Merit knot as well, maybe possibly. I would expect anyone doing these kind of activities to humbly display a simple, small badge such as the square knots, known really only to a few. I also wear my President's Volunteer achievement pin, lifetime. They are all reminders to me of how far I've come and how far I have yet to travel.

Mike

[SeattlePioneer]

Mikeknr,

 

 

I'm with you. Some people enjoy the knot awards and some do not.

 

 

Personally, I find they tend to shape some of what I do, and in ways that are useful to the program.

 

I encourage new adult leaders to consider working for the knots by giving them the knot record sheets that list the requirements and allow them to be signed off. I look for opportunities to give new Scouters AOL and Eagle knots they may have earned as youth.

 

Just for openers, it can help make people SELF motivated to get trained. My only regret is that more people don't choose to be influenced by this part of the Scout program.

[desertrat77]

Seattle, good points, but here's the rub: if the training is respectful of the attendees' time and life experience, and the content is meaningful, we wouldn't have to beg/drag leaders to it. All too often, BSA training is the opposite.

[pohsuwed]

Here's my rub. Life, and BSA, is what you make of it. As BSA is largely a volunteer organization the training is largely a function of our own efforts. If we choose to be trained and hence turn and train others (scouters and scouts) because we want the program to improve it will happen. If we would rather just criticize the program and the efforts of the organization to get people more involved it will not survive. Thank goodness for those who want it to survive.

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello desert rat,

 

 

Sometimes I find offered training a waste of time, and I find that intensely annoying.

 

Mostly I find it worth while. In September 2010 I took over as Cubmaster for the first time, although I've had a lot of experience in other Scouting positions including Scoutmaster.

 

I took the Cubmaster training not once, but twice. The training offered at our major council training event didn't follow the prescribed Cubmaster training syllabus, but had interesting ideas presented by a talented Cubmaster. A couple of weeks later I took the standard Cubmaster training offere by my district, which was actually more valuable.

 

Perhaps you've had consistantly poor training experiences, and that would be unfortunate. I've had generally good experiences and usually find the training valuable.

 

Personally I think it's foolish for people new to the Cub Scout program to avoid training. The average person can come up with some kind of program, but is likely to have a better bprogram if they are exposed to the available training.

 

That's my experience and opinion, anyway. If you've had consistantly poor experience with training, that is indeed unfortunate,

[desertrat77]

Posuhwed, thanks for the positive thoughts. Ideally, it would indeed work that way. But my experience with training in four different councils (military moves) shows that training cadres aren't very receptive to new ideas, or to new members joining their club. After all, they know best and everyone who wishes to be A Member In Good Standing should just get with the program--right?

 

Seattle, I'm pro-training. But I'm also against wasting people's time. If people are staying away from training in droves, we've got to have the courage to look at the whole process--methods, subject matter, cadre attitude, the whole deal. For die-hard scouters we can say "Hey you might get a nugget or two out of that day-long course" or "If you are truly a dedicated scouter, you'll sit through this power point death march" and we'll just do it for the sake of the program. New folks? Their impressions, as conveyed to me, are that BSA training tends to be drawn out, bureaucratic, boring, and often times condescending. This matches my experience too. Again, the die-hards may grin and bear it, but the spark of scouting can be snuffed out quickly in these circumstances.

[Beavah]

Yah, pohsuwed, I think you're failin' to make a few important distinctions, eh? I see district and council folks make this mistake a lot.

 

It's important to remember that district and council volunteers are different than unit volunteers, eh? They're not the same.

 

Unit volunteers work for Chartered Organizations and through them for kids and families. They work to help kids grow, and help the CO to achieve its mission.

 

Council volunteers work for the BSA council, and through the council for CO's and unit volunteers. We work to help volunteers do a good job for CO's, and help the council to achieve its goals and mission.

 

So it's perfectly OK and appropriate for unit volunteers to offer criticism of how well we council volunteers are serving them. They are customers, eh? In most ways, they are paying for the services of the organization we chose to volunteer for. Where they're not, donors are paying for the council so that we can provide excellent services to those unit volunteers.

 

Criticism can be hard at times, but it's not at all a bad thing, eh? It's a good thing for da organization. Far better than if they just take their kids and their business elsewhere. We, as council volunteers, should look at that criticism and say "What can we do better?" Because serving those folks is the mission of our organization. The only reason we exist, the only reason we are volunteers is to do the best job we can serving those folks. If we are failing at that in their eyes, then we are failing at our mission as council volunteers.

 

Da unit volunteers don't work for us. We work for them.

 

We forget that at the peril of the very soul of organized scouting.

 

Beavah

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Hello Desertrat,

 

 

If people had taken training and decided it was a waste of time, I would respect that opinion.

 

 

Most people have never given training a try. They simply don't make it a priority or wish to spend the time on it.

 

I understand that, but I think it's too bad. I try to make a point of keeping unit leaders informed of training opportunities and giving people encouragement to give it a try.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I've taken some training that I considered to be a waste of time, and I resented the waste. So I appreciate your observation --- I simply have found most training I have taken to be useful.

[pohsuwed]

Beavah - I catch your fine-tuning, but it's really not relevant to the primary issue at hand. With that being said, this part of the thread has drifted a bit anyway, so why not a little more drift? Thanks.