Webelos & Troop camping

[sctmom]

My understanding of the Webelos camping is that they should never spend the night at a Boy Scout camporee. They should only camp with the troop when the den is the focus of the troop.

 

How much leeway does a district or council have in changing this rule? Our district and council seem to allow and highly encourage Webelos to go to Boy Scout camporees, and to participate in the competitions. The Webelos compete against Webelos, but these are still events planned around Boy Scout skills.

 

 

[eisely]

sctmom,

 

Your post actually raises several issues. Webelos camping with specific scout units does occur. I have also seen Webelos groups show up at a scout camporee and go through the events, but not stay overnight. Some districts organize annual events similar to camporee just for Webelos where the Webelos camp and compete in age and skill appropriate events. The district I was in in Southern California ran a joint scout and Webelos camporee. There were separate competitive events, but a single set of flag ceremonies and a single campfire.

 

There is no general prohibition of which I am aware that would prevent Webelos from doing anything alongside a scout unit. It appears to be a matter of local policy and program availability. Organizing and executing a camporee type event for Webelos is probably a matter of interested volunteer resources.

[sctmom]

Our Council does do a Webelos only weekend at the local Boy Scout camp. Webelos attend with their parent(s). They participated in some scout skills activities. It was a lot of fun for everyone. The Boy Scouts ran the different stations.

My concern is a Camporee that is targeted at Boy Scouts. The Boy Scouts troops are there to compete against each other. Is the Webelos Den their focus?

 

[P_Swigs]

The Webelos activities in our Council (and our district) have been upgraded over the last year or so. Where we used to incorporate the 5th grade Webelos into the fall camporee, that has now changed. We have initiated the program to which Eisely alluded - a separate Webelos program in conjuction with the camporees. It's run as it's own event, with it's own patch, it's own staff, separate camping sites, etc. It has been pretty well accepted in it's first year and will likely get bigger and better. The Webelos and Boy Scouts did share the flag ceremonies and campfire program. It was a nice way of getting the Webelos (and adult leaders) a camping experience as well as a taste of Boy Scouting at our Scout camp.

 

The key to the decision was the fact that Camporees are BOY SCOUT events. The events and activities are set up for Boy Scout age boys. While there may be Webelos who are skilled enough to participate, generally speaking, they aren't ready for that level of competition and/or demonstration of skills. In addition, should the camporee have a merit badge theme, Webelos can't earn them anyway.

 

There is also the fact that older Scouts want camporees to offer challenges for them, as well as a chance to polish their patrol methods of camping and cooking. Having the Webelos in that setting lessens the chance of Webelos getting a positive experience.

 

With that said, the Troop and Webelos den should plan as many outings as feasible outside of a camporee where the Webelos are the focus of the weekend. The weekend can be one of camping or otherwise, but should include an opportunity for the Boy Scouts to demonstrate their leadership and Scouting skills in an effort to show the Webelos the fun of what lies ahead in Boy Scouts. The weekend can even be set up like a camporee in which the Webelos go from activity to activity learning Boy Scouting skills during the day. Activities like lashing, knots, flag etiquette, first aid, cooking, and the like are possible activities. The Webelos can also be incorporated into the Patrols to watch and participate in camp setup and cooking.

 

Webelos-to-Scout transition is an important time along the Scouting Trail. Having proper Webelos events with a Boy Scout Troop will ensure Boy Scouting continues to grow.

[sctmom]

Some of the boys did attend a spring campout that is specifically for Webelos. We spent 1/2 day doing knot tying, string burning, stretcher race, and compass reading. The parents enjoyed it as much as the boys.

 

I believe there is another Webelos focused event in March. Since my boys won't cross over until end of March, I hope to get some of them to that event. At least for the day, if not the whole weekend.

 

It is frustrating to have the District and Council telling us something that goes against what all the Leader's manual say.

 

[eisely]

Even where the adult leadership in a scout troop may desire to do so, it is often difficult to get the scouts to cooperate in a joint Scout/Webelos activity of any kind. The unfortunate fact is that many boys of scout age look down on Webelos to bolster their own lack of emotional development.

 

I would suggest approaching some of the troops in your area, particularly those troops your boys are likely to join, to see what they might be willing to do. Council or district policy is more often just an attitude, subject of course to bonafide policies in the Guide to Safe Scouting. In your situation, if you have a troop that is interested in doing something with you, I doubt that anybody is going to stand in the way.

[Chippewa29]

As far as I've always known, Webelos can camp with Boy Scouts providing that each Webelo staying overnight has an adult (parent, uncle, neighbor, older sibling, etc.) with them. As far as joint activities, each fall our district hosts a camporee for both Boy Scouts and Webelos. The district sets up competitive events for the Scouts, while the troops attending set up events (mainly non-competitive) for the Webelos to participate in. The weekend is used mainly as a recruiting session. We had twenty-five Webelo dens visit us during a seven hour period. Our Scouts took turns working the troop event and attending the competitions. The kids all had a great time and we made some very good contacts for recruiting (we have 14 packs within 15 minutes of us). Some of the troops had Webelo dens camp with them, but most of the Webelos just came out for the day.

[P_Swigs]

The purpose of Webelos camping with Boy Scouts is to give them a taste of what lies ahead in Scouting. The Webelos den / Boy Scout Troop overnighter or camping weekend can be a very powerful way of presenting Boy Scouting to the fifth graders, and is a great way to sell those prospective new Scouts on what a great bunch of guys and well organized Troop you really are.

 

If done properly, the Boy Scouts will lead the Webelos in a number of different activities and show them how the patrol method works. It's also a great time for having fun and basic interaction. If there's a lot of the latter, and even more of the former, you'll have lots of Webelos joining you at crossover time.

 

The overnighter should not, however, be done as part of a district or council event such as a camporee. You want the Webelos to be the main focus of the event so they can learn and see what you're all about. Camporees are Boy Scout events and should be kept as such. Organizers spend inordinate amounts of time planning challenging tests of skill for boys who have learned them, or putting together a merit badge themed camporee, neither of which are appropriate for Webelos.

 

As the Webelos Leader Guide (page 21)says, "Dens of Webelos with their parents are encouraged to participate in several joint den-troop campouts, particularly during the fifth grade year. These campouts, conducted with an individual troop for the purpose of strengthing ties between the pack and the troop, are to be held separate from any district or council Boy Scout activities."

 

That's not to say you couldn't have a special Webelos event held in conjunction WITH a camporee. A special Webelos event designed to give the Webelos a camping experience and some outdoor activities, perhaps working some of the outdoor activity pins into the program, is encouraged, as long as the Boy Scouts are doing their thing while the Webelos do theirs. Both groups should camp separately and participate during the day as if they're camping in two different camps. As someone suggested, it's a great idea to have a joint morning flag ceremony and evening campfire. That allows the Webelos to see the Boy Scouts in action, and during the campfire, even gives them an opportunity for doing a few skits.

 

Lastly, parents ARE required to camp with Webelos-age Scouts. There is an allowance of one extra boy per adult should a parent not be able to go for some reason, but that is the requirement.

[Robin]

Why are do Webelos need to camp with their parents? Is this a child safety issue or a cunning leader recruitment plan?

In the UK, 8,9 and 10 year old Cubs are able to camp with leaders (one leader per 6 Cubs plus one in overall charge) If we had to have parents with them, most of the boys wouldn't get to camp.

[sctmom]

Robin, It is is an interesting question, especially since here in the states the Girl Scouts organization has girls camping 8 years old without every parent involved.

For my group of boys, it is preventing at least 3 boys from getting to camp. Their parents have an excuse every time. But then again, I'm not sure I want to be one of 2 adults taking 8 active boys off for the weekend. My own keeps me busy enough...lol.

 

[Robin]

Our rule is a minimum of 3 adults so it usualy works out OK. I am impressed by the amount that you get parents involved in activities. We usualy have a few good parent helpers who turn uot for outings but everything else is done by leaders. At our weekly pack nights we usualy have 2 leaders and 36 kids.

[ScouterPaul]

The offical Scout rule for Webelos camping is as follows: There is to be a minimum of 1 adult for every 2 Webelos. A parent can be in charge of his/her own son and one other boy. The leader can only be in charge of his/her own son. We use a permission slip that states if the parent is going to be at the outing. If the parent cannot make the trip the permission slip specifically states who will be in charge of the Scout. If your Webelos campout includes 10 boys then you must have a minimum of 6 adults.

[Robin]

The rules you mention would apply to Beavers in Britain (6 & 7 year olds).We try to encourage Cubs to learn to look after themselves without their parents under supervision of leaders. We welcome parent helpers, but they are supposed to be there to help look after all the Cubs, not just their offspring.

 

[andrews]

I recall seeing that the adult per child ratio changed in the last year or two. If I remember correctly, it changed during the time I was a WDL, though I could be mistaken. I thought the current policy was the leader could watch his own son and another adult could watch the others.

 

I would like to know if I am wrong in this.

 

Brad

[sctmom]

As stated above, the rule is the leader can watch only his/her own son. Other parents can watch their own son plus 1 other. All of the Cub Scout / Webelos leader literature make it clear the intent is for each child to have a parent or other designated adult with them.

Yet, even with this ratio, the Webelos should only camp with Boy Scouts when the Webelos are the focus of the Troop (not the Camporee being the focus).