Military uniform items with scouting?

[Mike F]

KC John,

 

Although I've seen this before, I confess to never really paying attention to the meaning, so it took me a minute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

Insightful point!

[John-in-KC]

Mike,

 

Now, you said:

 

"After thinking about it a bit, I sided with PLC and we have some awesome camo shirts the boys are proud to wear with troop logo on the front and troop motto on the back."

 

BRAVA!!!!!

 

There's nothing I know of in the literature about a restriction on non-military camouflage. Period.

 

I would, though, as someone who enjoys making weapons deliver ordnance, offer to your youth both sides of the "camouflage/high visibility" conundrum out in the woods. That, though, can be done inside a Scoutmaster Minute.

 

Good work with them!

[BDPT00]

Great shot, John.

Didn't have time to come up with anything better, so I went for the throat. Guess I missed the mark by going overboard, eh?

My point was intended to be that simply using the argument that, "It was the kid's idea, so what could I do?" doesn't always cut it with me. I've used the same tactic myself with my PLC and the troop committee, so I agree that it's often pretty effective. Intentionally going against the wishes (or the rules) set out by national or the council isn't something I think we should brag about. There are mixed messages we send to our Scouts. Sometimes it's that we're to be obedient, and other times it's that we can break the rules if and when we feel like it.

That was my point, agree or not. I'll try to stay away from the jugular.

BDPT0

 

[SctDad]

Here is one thing that I have for you that do not agree with the military items.

 

Why does the OA Trail Crew at Northern Tier recommend them.

 

http://adventure.oa-bsa.org/index.php?p=plantrek#oav

 

In addition to the items on that list, you will need boots with good ankle support (these boots will be wet every day -- US-made jungle boots the best choice) and work clothes, ..........

 

There is no doubt which ones they are talking about. Standard, MILITARY ISSUE, jungle boots.

 

OMG, someone at Northern Tier needs to read the guidelines, that is using military items with scouting uniforms.

[Eagle92]

SctDad,

 

LOL, and N. Tier sells the good ones too!

 

I bought a cheap pair of 'jungle boots" for canoeing as I was told jungle boots are the best, and learned the hard way you get what you pay for. Luckily the boots were only a day old when the sole came off, and I was able to get a refund, which went into an Altama pair. I love my Altama jungle boots for water activities. And now that the best camp in the council has rowboats, I am using my jungle boots a lot more now

 

 

On a different note, I don't think anyone is complaining about boots, backpacks, etc being used. Rather I think people are referring to stuff like gloves, pistol belts, pants etc that are worn With a uniform or in place of a uniform. And I can see where folks are coming from.

[centurion6868]

Thank you all but I had a surprising response. Council is behind it. PLC, SPL (an initiator) and Troop Committee behind it. The "group" does not exclude everyone in the troop from doing flags. Their job is actually to TEACH younger how to do it properly and such. The Council likked the idea. The boys in it are only there because the volunteered and once trained are eligible. It's not just an every day meeting opening group. Berets, bib scarfs and shoulder cords were approved! Not even going to think about parade rifles but found 3 other troops in the ara that use them. So I guess the concensus at least in our council is that it would be a good thing (and yes they are required to have full uniform) to have this group of kids that have volunteered for this ceremonial training. So in the whole concept of it, they love it.

 

Should be interesting. oh, and you need to check about the alteration of the uniform. There is a caveat...unless approved by the council executive. Also, headgear...approved by the scoutmaster for specific functions.

 

Sorry if some dont agree. All scouts should be taught and will be but not all have the ineterest to take it to the next level and seriously learn the executions involved. They can take a flag up and down and they can carry a flag in a gaggle but to parade or execute a reveille or retreat? Not many have the interest or dedication to learn it right so rather than force it down the throats of all, all will learn the basics, the few that choose will perfect it.

 

 

[centurion6868]

Thank you all but I had a surprising response. Council is behind it. PLC, SPL (an initiator) and Troop Committee behind it. The "group" does not exclude everyone in the troop from doing flags. Their job is actually to TEACH younger how to do it properly and such. The Council likked the idea. The boys in it are only there because the volunteered and once trained are eligible. It's not just an every day meeting opening group. Berets, bib scarfs and shoulder cords were approved! Not even going to think about parade rifles but found 3 other troops in the ara that use them. So I guess the concensus at least in our council is that it would be a good thing (and yes they are required to have full uniform) to have this group of kids that have volunteered for this ceremonial training. So in the whole concept of it, they love it.

 

Should be interesting. oh, and you need to check about the alteration of the uniform. There is a caveat...unless approved by the council executive. Also, headgear...approved by the scoutmaster for specific functions.

 

Sorry if some dont agree. All scouts should be taught and will be but not all have the ineterest to take it to the next level and seriously learn the executions involved. They can take a flag up and down and they can carry a flag in a gaggle but to parade or execute a reveille or retreat? Not many have the interest or dedication to learn it right so rather than force it down the throats of all, all will learn the basics, the few that choose will perfect it.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Cent,

Well if your SE is behind ya, then go for it. BUT be advised that what one SE does allow, another one can take away. One of the bad things about having professionals move ever 3-5 years. I had the expereince of one gung ho SE who wanted to implement the council's original plan of turning our scout reservation into 3 camps; Cub Scout, Boy Scout, and Wilderness. He renovated the main camp and added the cub world elements to it. He started work on the new boy scout camp by having plans drawn up, donors linedup, chapel built, and campsites cleared to put in latrine, flagpoles, etc. The he gets promoted. next SE scraps that plan, and just renovates the camp. Lots of unhappy folks.

 

On another note, now that you got yourself a color guard, now you need a bugler!

[centurion6868]

Funny you should mention that. My 13 year old son IS our troop bugler. You'll love this story. He sight read naturally and can usually play something after hearing it too...once. The guy teaching the bugling mb at summer camp was playing on a larger horn and kept telling Danny he had to play everything lower (which sounded and octave off to me after hearing them every day for half a decade). At one point my son looks at him and says "Look, you play waht you see on the music and I'll play what I see". The next day, after stalking off angrily, the instructor comes back and apologizes and tells my son he was right and that his horn was tuned improperly. My son was so scared he wouldnt get the merit badge for speaking up.

 

Thus far he was the camp Bugler for the 100th anniversary camporee for Erie Shores Council at Maumee Bay State Park and the D.Exec was very unhappy when our troop didnt arrive at the Winter Weekend campout until 9 am sat. He wanted his bugler.

 

 

So. We have a Bugler. Who is also a member and training to be in the color guard. And has already loooked up the military bugle manual to learn how he is supposed to present and move during ceremonies. Says he's going in the Coast Guard anyway after HS.

 

Second note. Got official word from our District Executive. He apparently inquired directly with National and the reponse he received was

 

"I heard back from the National Office and they said that since there is no National Policy in writing for Parade Rifles it would be a Council decision. "

 

Shocked and surprised as I?

 

 

[Eagle92]

Cent,

I hate to say it but the person your DE talked to about parade rifles is incorrect. The Insignia Guide specifically prohibits them.

 

Drum and Bugle Corps Uniforms

 

Boy Scouts or Venturers who are members of bands, drill teams, or drum and bugle corps affiliated with a unit or a local council must wear the official uniform for their registration status.

 

The wearing of special helmets, scarves, gloves, unofficial leggings, and the carrying of ceremonial guns or swords by members of such organizations using the uniforms of the Boy Scouts of America is in violation of the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America. (emphasis mine)

 

here's the link http://www.bsajamboree.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx

 

 

On a more positive note, GLAD YOU GOT A BUGLER! (and that is me shouting at ya )