Cost of Uniforms

[BartHumphries]

When you play football at the high school, the high school pays for football uniforms, or at least it does where I live. It's part of that "free public education" thing. Some schools in other areas recently started charging for those things and they're being sued now. Pee-wee football doesn't count, as it's not real football -- it's not technically part of the school program.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Uniform/special.aspx

"While the official uniform should be worn to all den and pack meetings and formal events, the den or pack may designate a special-purpose uniform, such as the Cub Scout Activity Shirt (shown here) to be worn in place of the official uniform shirt for certain activities, such as sporting events or day camp." I think I saw something somewhere that said the same for Boy Scouting as well.

 

"It always amazes me how much a fuss the parents make when they spend $2000 for Jambo and get bent out of shape because their boys need TWO uniforms!" That's not a problem where I live as my troop has never, at least going back the 30 years that I know of, gone to a Jamboree (and I couldn't tell you any nearby troop that had). They're just too expensive.

[ScoutBox]

Don't mention Jambo. I can rant about that all day.. too expense for one event. Same as World Jambo.

 

 

[Stosh]

If one cannot afford a uniform, then don't. It's not a requirement. However, don't put it half together thinking it's really a uniform.

 

My boys know the routine. A couple of weeks ago one of the boys in my troop blew the zipper out on his uniform pants and so he wore blue jeans and the rest of his uniform. At flags he did not give the scout salute and instead put his hand over his heart. No one said a thing.

 

Stosh

[ScoutBox]

Sorry, but I think that is wrong. This isn't the military. and the boy had an excuse. But not being about to Salute the flag as usual is wrong. I think that that is exclusion.. not what I want any boy to feel in my troop. In the field, do they wear 1000% uniforms for morning and evening Flags? I know at Summer camp we do, but a weekend camp out?

[resqman]

"But not being about to Salute the flag as usual is wrong. I think that that is exclusion.. not what I want any boy to feel in my troop. In the field, do they wear 1000% uniforms for morning and evening Flags? I know at Summer camp we do, but a weekend camp out?"

 

There is 1 uniform. All or nothing. If you are not in uniform, then you cannot use the scout salute. You are dressed as a civilian and show respect to the flag the way a civilin would, with your hand over your heart.

 

Stop making excuses for not wearing the uniform. If you will not wear it fully and correctly, then don't bother at all. Yes, our troop expects the scouts to travel in "full" uniform to and from campouts. Once at the campout, it is suggested they remove the uniform shirt to limit dirt and damage. Fully half the troop wears the pants all weekend. All adult leaders wear the full uniform all weekend long. Scouts are expected to wear the "full" uniform Sunday for Scouts Own service just prior to boarding the vehicles for the return trip.

 

If you don't have your uniform on Friday in the parking lot, you are not allowed to go on the campout. Parents have rushed home and back to complete a uniform for errant scouts. $100 for my sons uniform 4 years ago. 50 troop meetings, 10 campouts, 1 week of summer camp a year for 4 years. He has gotton $100 worth of wear out of his uniform. He tore the seat of his pants 2 years ago. Ironed a patch on the inside and still wearing them. Shirt is getting a little tight but his brother is aging out in about 8 months. No need to buy a new shirt when his brothers only has 3 years wear.

 

The only special care my sons have take of their uniform is wadding it up and throwing it on the floor after every wearing. It gets machine washed and dryed weekly. My sons are the ones who are the ones who comeback from an outing covered in mud holding wriggling rodents, reptiles, and insects. No problems. Wear the uniform.

 

Once you develop a troop culture of wearing the "full" uniform to EVERY event, there is no questions from the scouts and incoming scouts understand that part of scouting is wearing the uniform.

[ScoutBox]

No excuses. It's just that I'm not the SM of my Troop. My son wears full uniform, and so do I. but I can't force my Troop. But that's another story. If I one day become the SM, then I will start this. But for the moment it's not up to me.. So getting them into a Scout shirt is already a big thing here.

[Jeffrey H]

"....new SPL has decided that the boys can now wear just activity t-shirts to meetings now????????..."

This brings up a good question about how far do we go with "boy-led" decisions in a Troop.  The troop I belong to is very much boy-run, however, our SPL and other boy leaders do not get to decide when and where they will wear their uniforms.  The final word on uniforming comes from our SM and Troop Committee. 

 

[ScoutBox]

Sadly, I'm in a mixed Culture Troop. Half of the boys aren't American. They are English/Welsh. And the leadership is also English etc.. Until our new adults and boys get older and take back control this will be the norm. The US Troops have it made. Your dealing with Americans. Not over here in TAC. We deal with Europeans.

[Stosh]

jblake47: My boys know the routine. A couple of weeks ago one of the boys in my troop blew the zipper out on his uniform pants and so he wore blue jeans and the rest of his uniform. At flags he did not give the scout salute and instead put his hand over his heart. No one said a thing.

 

ScoutBox: Sorry, but I think that is wrong. This isn't the military. and the boy had an excuse. But not being about to Salute the flag as usual is wrong. I think that that is exclusion.. not what I want any boy to feel in my troop. In the field, do they wear 1000% uniforms for morning and evening Flags? I know at Summer camp we do, but a weekend camp out?

 

I really don't think it would be appropriate to pass onto the boy that his decision to use the civilian salute while not in uniform is wrong. Either way the boy showed proper respect to the flag, but by recognizing he was not in uniform also showed respect to the uniform. Those that give respect get respect. I'm thinking the boy did just fine.

 

Of course that also begs the back-handed question as to whether or not using bits and pieces of the scout uniform as a uniform shows proper respect as well.

 

I might be a wee bit old world when I think that getting by with the minimum when it comes to teaching boys leadership isn't really a very good idea. Do I expect that getting 2% of my boys to Eagle is good enough to get by? Do I expect that tying the square knot once is good enough to get by?

 

Esprit-de-corp and pride in one's unit is dependent upon the general attitude of each of it's members. My boys quietly take pride in the fact that they are the only uniformed troop in our council and when they show up for adult meetings like Roundtable and University of Scouting, they notice that they are uniformed more than the majority of adults present.

 

It is in a silent recognition of this attitude that maybe the boy used the civilian salute rather than the scout salute in this situation. I did not ask him, it was a private matter unto himself. But then esprit-de-corps works that way.

 

Being a boy-led program, I don't often question the boys' decisions about certain things, but by what they decide and do, speaks volumes about what's going on inside their heads, not just some patch they wear on their shirt.

 

Stosh

 

(Forgot to mention: my boys have all learned that having an excuse about the past has no bearing on being excused in the future. Having an excuse doesn't mean it dictates towards decisions pertaining to tomorrow.) The boy could have used the excuse of a broken zipper to justify the Scout salute, or he could just rely on the basics that have always been around from the beginning, when in uniform salute with the Scout salute, when not, salute with the civilian salute. He didn't need the excuse, it's worthless anyway.(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[dlearyous]

I've never bought a shirt at full price. We've bought all six of our shirts off e-Bay and rarely paid over $15.00.

 

Our pants are olive colored jeans, slacks or cargo pants, not official, but we blend in just fine. I don't quite understand the requirement for them to be official pants.

 

The Girl Scouts have gone to only requiring the vest/sash and pin and encourage khaki pants and white shirts. That would be fine, but even at that no one bothers to wear the encouraged 'uniform'. It really rubs me the wrong way.

[Rockford8070]

"When you play football at the high school, the high school pays for football uniforms, or at least it does where I live. It's part of that "free public education" thing. "

 

You pay taxes, there is no such thing as free education. Or in this case free uniforms. But it is an interesting dilemma considering the economy. Although I remember reading The Three Musketeers, in which the Musketeers were responsible for providing for their own uniform, tack, etc, which led to hijinx and hilarity, but it also seemed to make it a more exclusive club. One thing I keep hearing at our council membership meetings is how membership is down. You don't increase membership by making it more exclusive or alienating your members. So I guess I would say be careful in how you approach the subject with the scouts.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

There is 1 uniform. All or nothing. If you are not in uniform, then you cannot use the scout salute. You are dressed as a civilian and show respect to the flag the way a civilin would, with your hand over your heart.

The BSA is not the military or para-military and boy scouts are always civilian regardless of whether they are in a scout uniform or not.  BSA statements regarding the uniform are guidelines, not laws or rules to be enforced upon the membership.  Troops can decide when it is appropriate for their scouts to use the scout salute.  I agree, a scout salute should only be used when in uniform, however locals Troops can decide for themselves when their Scouts are in uniform (i.e., with or without the "official" uniform pants).

My Troop does not require "official" uniform pants to be considered in uniform.  We encourage it, but do not require.  Therefore, they can scout salute the flag.

 

 

[FScouter]

The Boy Scout uniform is defined by BSA. Individuals or units are not granted permission to decide what constitutes a uniform. Folks will do as they may, but do so outside the BSA program. Let's not spread the myth that units are permitted to wear what they want and call it a BSA uniform.

[Stosh]

It's my personal opinion that BSA does away with the inspection sheets because no one respects them anyway.

 

It's my personal opinion that everyone can decide what they want for a uniform.

 

It's my personal opinion that even though everyone looks different we still say they are uniformed.

 

It's my personal opinion that there can be hundreds of different uniforms as long as somewhere there's a fleu-de-lis affixed to any one of the various articles of clothing.

 

It's my personal opinion that even though I forgot to wear my troop designed uniform I can still salute to show my honoring the spirit of the rules.

 

It's my personal opinion that because I sewed one official BSA button on my tan dress shirt that I can count it as a uniform shirt.

 

It's my personal opinion that I have patch magic-ed my patches wherever I want, it'll ruin my shirt to move them, so I get to leave them wherever they are, right or wrong.

 

It's my opinion that scouts do away with the idea of having an uniform in the first place because the other kids at school think it's dorky anyway.

 

It's my opinion that adults no wear uniforms because they only do it to appease their egos, anyway.

 

 

 

Ever wonder why we have so many excuses to not wear the uniform right and very few excuses to do so?

 

 

Wearing appropriate clothing for the occasion is not just military. Wearing a tux with blue jeans to prom might not be as outlandish as it once was, but then why not wear blue jeans with your marching band outfit and save the taxpayers a bit of property tax along the way. After all, all you need in an instrument to be in the band, everything else isn't as important.

 

Stosh

 

 

[clemlaw]

It's my personal opinion that because I sewed one official BSA button on my tan dress shirt that I can count it as a uniform shirt.

 

Yep, you have to draw the line somewhere, so maybe that's where the line is. Or maybe the guy who lost a BSA button and temporarily replaced it with an unofficial button is out of uniform. It just depends on where you draw the line.

 

Last year, my son was a "Lion Cub". This is a pilot program for kindergarteners in my council. He was BSA registered, and according to council instructions, the official uniform consisted of a T-shirt of a color chosen by the den (in our case, blue), with a council-supplied iron-on patch, one for the parent, and the other one for the Lion.

 

When saluting the flag at a Pack meeting while wearing my blue T-shirt, the natural thing for me to do was to use the Cub Scout salute. After all, I was wearing the full official uniform of a Lion parent, and yes, I can show you that in writing. But I can also fully understand if someone else decided to put their hand over their heart. After all, it was just a T-shirt with a cartoon lion on it, and it didn't really look like a "uniform".

 

But IMHO, it doesn't really matter. The whole point of the exercise is to show respect for the flag, although some people might differ on exactly the best way to show that respect. It shouldn't be a forum for nitpicking about how many buttons constitute a uniform.