troop meetings . . . does your troop wear full uniforms?

[emb021]

First off, people need to understand that there are different 'levels' of uniforms, and there are different times when they are appropriate.

 

This is based on my experiences (nearly 40 years as youth & adult) and what's I've seen in my state.

 

Around here, these are the uniforms most understand:

 

* dress uniform (full uniform with fancy stuff: merit badge sash, medals, etc)

 

* full uniform (aka "Class A") scout shirt, scout pants/shorts, scout belt, scout hat, optional neckerchief. scout socks if shorts.

 

* activity uniform (aka "Class B") scout t-shirt, scout shorts & socks, scout belt, hat.

 

* grubbies (aka "class C") scout t-shirt. any types of pants/shorts.

 

 

For me (and others) wearing non scouting clothing is NOT being in uniform, no matter how 'nice' they look.

 

Dress uniform is for dressy occasions (COH, Award banquets, etc).

 

Full uniform is for when you need to be in uniform, and won't be doing too much active stuff (scout meetings, touring, assembly/meals at camp, etc)

 

Activity uniform is for when you will be more active, sweaty, but not dirty. What's nice is you can switch from "A" to "B" by just putting on your uniform shirt. So this is fine for activities at scout meetings, most activities at scouting events, etc)

 

Grubbies is when you're going to get dirty, but still want to be identified as scouts. This is for dirty stuff at camp, service projects, etc.

 

 

Having uniforms at scouting events is important, as you are identified as SCOUTS and not just random people. Being in uniform also sets a tone amoung the participants. Sorry, but I've never bought into this idea of being in uniform from the waist up.

 

[Lisabob]

So going back to the question at hand - Why should a troop expect that weekly troop meetings will require full uniforms, rather than "activity uniforms? (scout T and scout pants)"? Does setting this expectation result in meetings that conform to the expected dress code?

 

What does it say about weekly meetings, that the boys should not expect to be doing much that is active? I fully recognize that there needs to be some planning and occasional "sit and listen" stuff but if that's the bulk of the meeting, week after week, things get pretty dull and many boys lose interest.

 

Regarding identification: Do you mean to tell me that a group of boys in scout pants and scout/troop T shirts are not easily identifiable as scouts?

 

My son's troop does a fund raiser every year at a local festival, where they go around and pick up trash (for which the city pays the troop). They wear their scout pants and troop T shirts. Another troop sells hot dogs and cold drinks at the same festival. They wear their troop T shirt and scout pants. Nobody mistakes these two groups for anything other than boy scouts, let me tell you. And most people seem to figure out very quickly that there are two troops working the event, too (because they have different color T shirts).

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Having uniforms at scouting events is important, as you are identified as SCOUTS and not just random people

 

Yah, I don't reckon I've ever had much trouble identifying scouts. Even on da trail wearing outdoor clothing, eh? The smell alone...

 

Seriously, da way you identify scouts is simple. A bunch of teenage boys with more than da usual skills and confidence doin' something outdoors or service minded. I've never needed da uniform to tell a group of scouts ever.

 

 

The uniform doesn't set the tone, eh? Being a scout sets the tone. The tone sets da meaning of the uniform, whichever one happens to be worn.

 

And I don't reckon the lads need help identifying each other at their own meeting, eh?

 

Nuthin' wrong with spif uniforming, either. Tradition and ritual are important for young lads, as is being a part of something bigger than themselves. All things in balance. There's time for formal wear, but I'm not sure it's when you're hanging with your patrol buddies at an active, fun meeting (which preferably is outdoors!)

 

Beavah

Beavah

[boomerscout]

no, not in the summer time unless it's C of H, publicity pix for newspaper, or multi-troop council camp/activity

[Hal_Crawford]

"Having uniforms at scouting events is important, as you are identified as SCOUTS and not just random people"

 

There is truth to this. We occasionally have people walk into our meetings who are looking for the group that meets two flights up. The shirts seem to be enough to convince them that we are a Scout troop and not an AA meeting. I am not sure that the official pants would make it any clearer.

 

I also agree with the gentleman who recollected that his troop was fully uniformed but rarely camped. That could have been my troop. We were fully uniformed and had regular inspections down to the cleanliness of our finger nails. If I recall we did four campouts a year: the camporee, the projectoree and a practice campout for each of them. We also did a week at summer camp. I liked it at the time but looking back I have to think it wasn't much of a program. May be the reason the troop died in the mid '70s.

 

Hal

 

[desertrat77]

Reading the posts thus far, two thoughts come to mind:

 

1. We still don't have a uniform that folks consider appropriate for physical activity--steal the bacon, camping, hiking, cleaning up the quartermaster's store, selling hot dogs. This is a poke in the eye to the Uniform Gurus who designed these things, and a well deserved one I might add.

 

2. (Donning my fuddy duddy hat) We are training the scouts for future responsibility, right? Part of that is dressing appropriately, whether you "feel comfortable" or not. There's a time and a place for everything, and our casual dress ideals I think have gone too far, scouting or not.

 

For example, it used to drive me nuts to see how the kids dressed for formal school dances when my oldest daughter was in high school. The girls are dressed to the nines, but the boys are bumming along in jeans and open collared shirts.

 

As a career military guy, I see the results of this "take it easy dude" approach as well. Tell young folks that the uniform of the day is service dress or dress uniform? Good grief, the complaining is incredible. Folks want to wear utility uniforms even when they are working in hi-visibility or formal environment. Ties make them itch, they don't like ironing shirts, putting ribbons on correctly is too hard, shining shoes takes too long, etc.

 

Or, when attending formal off-duty activities where the the invite prescribes what to wear (sports coat, business casual, etc)? Young folks will still show up dressed in tee shirts, sneakers and other stuff. Instant credibility/maturity check.

 

Is it their fault? Yes, they are adults. But they have 20 years of "wear what you want honey" instilled in them, and they have to learn big boy/big girl appearance skills in a flash. Most learn, but it's bound to cost in terms of personal embarrasment. They just didn't know.

 

You can see it in the corporate world too. I've been amazed at how slovenly men--in executive environments no less--look.

 

It all boils down to credibility, and learning to put higher ideals ahead of personal comfort.

 

So back to the issue at hand. Two hours a week? The kids can handle dressing like scouts, in whatever uniform they got. Believe it or not, you can play steal the bacon in a scout uniform (like a previous poster said, stash the neckerchief and other doo dads during the game).

 

It's far easier to train the scouts on these issues now, rather than waiting for them to join the civilian work force, or the military, and learning how to dress formally short notice/under pressure.

 

And if parents don't want their scouts to ruin that expensive uniform at a meeting? A very legit concern. Skip the centennial uniform altogether, or save it for COH, and buy a shirt and pair of pants from the sixties or fifties. They wear like iron, are dirt cheap, and several more scouts can wear them ala pass me down for years to come.

[Lisabob]

So, desert, from your post (and note, I might agree with some of the general sentiments you express) I gather that the purpose of requiring the full uniform at weekly meetings is to ensure that boys will know how to dress properly in the adult business/work world.

 

Suppose a boy joins a troop in February of 5th grade, and stays all the way through 12th grade, at which time he ages out. Suppose the troop holds 40 meetings a year, each 2 hours long (for sake of argument). Suppose also, that this boy attends each and every meeting. He will have attended something like 300 weekly troop meetings in his time as a boy scout.

 

Do you really think he needs 600 hours of learning to dress properly?

 

Regarding the lack of skill or preparedness we see among young adults entering the work world, I agree with you there, but let's take it further than their clothing choices. Many young (and not so young) adults I know can't do simple math and their capacity to handle the English language with any sort of fluency is atrocious. They barely know how to answer a telephone and take a message. They often don't have good table manners, either.

 

Should we spend some of our 600 hours of meeting time on those things, instead? Could you imagine if every troop meeting began with the boys writing a short essay (or a report, or a thank you note - for variety), or laying the table correctly for a fancy dinner?

 

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[Eagle92]

The 3rd ed. SMHB has a great explanation as to why wear a uniform. Don't have it in front of me, so i am not going to quote it now. Maybe when I get home, if I got time.

 

My troop was a fully uniformed troop, and wew were also a "Hiking and Camping troop." We were out doing a campout, hike, or both, every month save December. And even in December we had a few scouts going to Wintercamp.

 

We had a uniform inspection every week at the meeting. Yes we had guys coming and going to other activities, but they always had their uniform on a hanger to change into. Heck a good friend had his ECOH the same nite as my Sr. Ring Ceremony and Dance. I went to the ceremony in coat and tie with my date, and had the uniform hanging in the back. Went straight from the ceremony to the ECOH and changed into my uniform. Once the ECOH was finished, changed back into coat and tie for the dance with my date. Was not a big deal. Ditto the Chrismas Dance one gf had on the same nite as my troop's annual Christmas COH and party. However she was a little overdressed in her formal dress for the COH

[desertrat77]

Lisa, dressing properly for a meeting doesn't strike me as excessive. Scouts wear uniforms, and my point is they can do everything they need to do at a meeting in that uniform.

 

It helps them understand how to take care of clothing, and knowing what to wear at appropriate times.

 

Going camping is another matter. I'd recommend wearing whatever combo suits the scout and the troop and the parent's budget best.

 

A couple hours a week isn't draconian, at least to me. In the Air Force, you can spot the guy or gal right away that isn't used to wearing a dress uniform. Doesn't fit right, they are uncomfortable, name tag and ribbons are askew, pant length too short, etc. Scouts, same-same.

 

You raise an excellent point about common courtesies in society at large, very true. I certainly wouldn't recommend scouting turn into a Ms. Manners platform. I think we manage to sneak in enough manners at camp (full uniform at dinner, Philmont grace, serving others first, washing hands, etc) and other places to not make it obvious. But generally speaking, in the adult world, the points you outlined are a concern.

[Engineer61]

Actually, if you asked boys who did *not* join scouts why the were not interested, you'd probably find the majority would say that they did not want to wear the uniform.

[SMT224]

Sorry Lisabob & Engineer61, I just don't buy the "uniform is a deterrent" argument. I have yet to find a Scout who quits because of the uniform. Now maybe we're not as extreme as some Troops, but the SPL & ASPL are pretty good at enforcing dress codes and the Scouts quickly learn to comply. The main reason kids quit our Troop is because they discover they do not like to camp, and camping is mainly what we do - almost every month of the year in most any kind of weather.

 

We all wear a uniform... it is the clothes we put on every day. It might be khakis and a polo, jeans & a t-shirt, a retail uniform, or a suit and tie. I see no harm in letting kids know that there can be a specific dress code for a specific situation. Welcome to the real world.

[Beavah]

Yah, SMT224, I reckon Lisabob's point was that there is a dress code for certain situations, but that da Boy Scout Uniform ain't the proper dress code for what we do at a meeting, eh? Leastways, not if we're having fun, active meetings that appeal to kids all summer long. Kinda like expecting one of us adults to wear a full suit and tie to a beach party. Only works as a joke or costume, not somethin' you'd ever really do in public.

 

I travel all over, and yeh see all kinds of attitudes about formal clothing among da older folks who care about such things. In urban areas and old industries, formal clothing matters to professionals. In suburban areas and especially in more modern "growth" industries that are providing the jobs of the future, casual is more the rule. Wear a suit and tie and yeh look like an incompetent pointy-haired boss. In some rural areas, wearing formal clothing is considered "uppity".

 

So perhaps this depends a bit on where your unit is located, and whether da area is in tune with modern "growth" industries or not. But I reckon the bigger message is that gettin' clothing wrong one way or the other really can be a turn-off, eh? Show up for a job interview at a bank in cut-off jeans and a tie-dye, not a great choice. Advertise outdoor adventure and require a pressed parlor outfit designed a quarter century before you were born, perhaps not a great choice either.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagle92]

I too have never known anyone who quit Scouting b/c of the uniform. Too much camping, sports committments, school committments, boredom, ad nauseum have been used. But I've never heard uniform.

 

As others stated there is a time and a place for uniforms. IMHO meetings is one, as well as formal events. For camping, depending upon whatis going, I like the Class B's I described above ( I do like the Switchback I's material for camping)for some outdoor events, but whenit comes time to trail work, OA service, and my favorite part of the trips as a youth, GAME TIME, cammies are the clothing of choice.

[resqman]

Same old arguements, over and over.

 

I grew up in a fully uniformed troop that had inspections at each troop meeting. Points were awarded. We wore the uniform to everything we did, meetings, camping, hiking, summer camp, etc.

 

Current troop is a fully uniformed troop. The uniform works in the outdoors.

 

 

[acco40]

A couple of observations.

 

1) An activity uniform is a full uniform. So is the field uniform.

2) As scouters, we have promised to deliver the scouting program and one of the methods of that program in the Uniform.

3) A scout who is nervous or apprehensive about being recognized as a scout to the general public is hesitant to wear the uniform. Those who are proud to be a scout are not hesitant to wear the uniform in a public setting.

4) The same reasons for not wearing a uniform to a troop meeting can be made for not wearing a uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor.

5) Scouts consist of teenage boys, a group of individuals who are very, very unsure of themselves and are heavily influenced by peer pressure.

 

I remember my grade school days where it was a special treat to wear our Cub Scout uniform to school on the days we had den meetings. The den meetings were not held at the school but were at the den mothers (not leaders) house immediately after school.

 

Times have changed. When I was Scoutmaster, the SPL asked me if the troop could wear an activity uniform to troop meetings in the summer (an unairconditioned church). The previous Scoutmaster did not allow it for whatever reason. I stated I had no issue but asked that they could begin immediately after the first troop meeting where the whole troop showed up in their full field uniform. That usually took a month. (This message has been edited by acco40)