Eagle92 Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Desert, No offical explanation for was given for that or other uniform regs they have come out with recently. Several examples include no OA insignia; no WB beads (understand while underway, but for Bridges of Honor and other events especially since WB is for ALL programs now???? ); no unit numbers on any uniforms; no CSP and knots on adult/QM khaki uniform; no Sea Scout emblem, aka "Bugs" onthe "dixie cup" cup; etc. In reviewing SeaScout dissusions I found this answer from someone on the sea scout uniform committee for some answers. Apparentlythis came out in 2004, and a lot of folks are not happy. Also apparently Ships are not suppose to create their own uniforms anymore, unlike other Venturing units. The reasoning was that no one could seem to get it right. We had Boy Scout red numbers on blue uniforms, black on Khaki, white on Blue work shirts. Etc. National did not make any of them, so the numbers came from a number of unofficial sources. Before Sea Exploring, the unit numbers were optional. To reduce the cost of insignia, which is considerable, it was decided to reduce the insignia that causes the most trouble. Unit numbers and bugs on hats won. The committtee may in the future make unit numbers optional. We need to wait and see. However, if you get two Sea Scouters in a room, n two of them can agree on what the uniform should be. From a National stand point, the uniform varies widely across the country. This is due to the Explorer era when everyone made their own costume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHLees3rd Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Eagle92, I received from council a manila folder for each Scouter and inside was a certificate, a Scouter's Training Award medal in a case, a square knot patch, and a little BSA symbol pin for the knot or medal to indicate that the award was for Boy Scouting (as opposed to being earned in another division such as Venturing.) I was pleasantly surprised. I had an idea there would be a certificate, but I thought the troop would have to buy the medal and knot. Heck, when I was awarded the STA back in 1992, all I got was the medal in a case without a certificate. I even had to purchase my own knot! I guess times have changed in some ways for the better. YiS, Chazz Lees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Every council does things different apparently. When I was in SELAC, I was given the STA certificate and knot; medal and device I had to buy on my own. Current council just gave me a Dist. Comm. Key cert. Not a big deal as I already had the SM KEy knot from a used shirt I bought. Haven't gottent he device for that one yet as I no longer wear devices; they keep popping off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emb021 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Re: the dropping of the unit numerals on Sea Scout uniforms. Ok. This one was one I had never heard of. So what if National Supply didn't make the numerals (which, by the way, isn't true. they made them for many years. I have a whole set I purchased from my local scout shop)? NS doesn't make a lot of Sea Scout insignia, so you had to get them from places like the Ship's Store, which IMO were better made and cheaper then NS. But the reason I was told for dropping the numerals, was that the National Sea Scout committee wanted to push the use of ship emblems on the uniform, and figured if they dropped the unit numbers, they could increase them, which I felt was silly. "Before Sea Exploring, the unit numbers were optional." Uh, not as far as I can tell from my researches. unit numbers were always a part of the Sea Scout uniform since the time of Cmdr Keane in the early 30s, and probably before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Emb, It's partially correct. If memory serves, you could wear numbers or unit patch. But the patch had to have specific info on it, i.e. Ship's name and #. Again if memory serves. I'll look it up in my old Sea Explorer manual when I get home. EDITED: I prefer unit numbers b/c it does prevent confusion, esp when you have 2 ships in the same council with the same name! My last ship and another used "Queen Ann's Revenge." Eventually my ship was renamed "Discovery," but all the vessals still fly either the Jolly Roger or Blackbeard's flag. (This message has been edited by eagle92) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted June 3, 2010 Share Posted June 3, 2010 Emb had a chance to look at the sea explorer manual I have and you are 100% correct, unit numbers were NOT an option. the option was to have a ship emblem or not. And even then the ship emblem was worn on the RIGHT sleeve, belwo the US flag and above the Standard Ship emblem. IT was optional; either that or a round Seaa Scout emblem was worn there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 having problems with this site onthe home computer, so I'm reattemtping to post. Emb, According to one website that did a handout on the Sea Scout uniform changes, in 2002 printing, the use of unit numbers or ship's patch became optional. Sorry I don't have the exact page number, but it was like p111 of the 2002 printing. Now my 1987 printing manual is almost identical to the 2002 printing, but it is numbered differently. I cannot find that optional statement anywhere. Desert, In reference to knots allowed, pgs. 114 and 115 of the current manual state: No youth awards are worn by adults on any Sea Scout uniforms with the exception of Quartermaster, Eagle Scout, Venturing Silver, and the old Air Scout Ace Awards; Honor Medal, Heroism Award, Medal of Merit, and Hornaday Award; and Scout religious awards. Under this policy the following knots cannot be worn by adults: the current Arrow of Light and Venturing Leadership Awards, and the older Exploring Ranger, Exploring Silver, Exploring G.O.L.D. Award, and Young American Award (which if memory serves, the last three used the same knot; I know my old council used the same knot for the G.O.L.D Award and YAA). Again no explanation was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Eagle92, thanks for the info. I'm a little surprised they dropped the old school Exploring awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Desert, No idea why they did it, but they did. Could it be that that's a period of Sea Scouting/Sea Exploring that they would like to forget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Eagle, it is puzzling: of everything I've read or heard about over the years, those Exploring awards were honorable. Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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