When is too much emphasis placed on uniforms?

[acco40]

What if associating with adults ceases to be fun?

 

What if keeping patrols and the desire is to be just one big happy troop?

 

What if advancement becomes to much pressure and no longer fun?

 

In the BSA we, as Scouters and have made the promise to deliver the Scouting program should set expectations that the boys should be in uniform (as well as ourselves). Should they drive it into the ground, no. The devil is always in the details but the "fun" litmus test is weak in my eyes.

[Beavah]

Yah, acco, if adults start arguin' about associating with adults, then too much emphasis is bein' placed on something there when they should instead be lookin' at kids.

 

If adults are spending a lot of time arguing about patrols so that it's makin' kids miserable, then too much emphasis of the wrong kind is being placed on patrol method.

 

If adults are arguing about advancement and it's really creating negative pressure on the lads, then too much emphasis is being placed on advancement.

 

It's a children's program, eh? We're there for the kids. At the point when the adults start fussin' and fightin' over methods, they're placing too much emphasis on the method when they should be thinking about the kids and the Aims.

 

Yeh can feel free to come up with your own litmus test of course . That one just happens to be mine, from seein' how the dynamic plays out in a lot of units. Hangin' with adults, doin' things with your patrol buddies, gettin' recognized for getting good at something, being proud of your uniform, all those are things that can and should be fun for boys if the adults don't ruin it for 'em by turning 'em into an adult squabble or make-work thing.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

It has been my experience that a percentage of scouters will argue just for the enjoyment of it.

 

I like the comparison to athletic or band uniforms. I understand the shirts are not protective gear, I have found them to be very durable.

 

I will say my 2 scout shirts and associated pants are the most worn clothing in my closet. I find it curious the looks my son and I get when we stop at an ihop, waffle house or somewhere to eat coming or going to an event. It is a shame the uniform and the men and boys that wear it are viewed as a curiosity by the public.

[Scoutfish]

I'm very proud of my leader uniform, but lately, I have found a slightly unsettling reason to maybe not wear it so much in public: I have walked into too many gast stationds and "food marts" and had too mant people suddenly relax AFTER finding out I wasn't a sheriff deputy.

 

WHAT? These people were kinda nervous and tense with me until they realized my khaki and green BSA leader uniform wasn't a khaki and brown sheriffs uniform.

 

So what if I happen to encounter a gacked out druggy who shoots me because he thought I was a cop only because he did not know what my uniform was?

 

Now... I am still gonna wear my uniform. If I stop at a store before or after a scout function...so be it. I will also eat at restaurants and stop by Wal-Mart too. But you got to wonder what people are really thinking when they stare at you!

[Oak Tree]

I just don't get the sport or band uniform analogy at all.

 

I would never have worn my band uniform or my basketball uniform any time other than when I was performing that role in front of the public. We never wore the uniforms while traveling. We didn't wear them for awards banquets. The sports analogy is really terrible, I think - that uniform has a giant number on it and each team intentionally wears different colors. Plus, the uniform is required by the rules of the sport, whereas the BSA specifically doesn't require them.

 

 

[Eagle92]

'Fish,

My one experience in the similar situation you described, dropping off a young man at his home in a housing development with another staff member, was OK. My staff buddy, who lived near by, basically said to keep the hands visible and away from my belt, and we would be cool. Only challenge we had was an angry dad who wanted to punich his son for causing problems at camp,a dn when his group was sent home not comign home with them. Had to explain that some of the youth staff "hid" the kid at the waterfront and tried to make him, a staffer for the rest of the week. Good kid, just in a bad group.

[evmori]

I'm with Oak Tree. The sports and band analogies are flawed. To be a member of a sports team or a band the participant MUST have a uniform. The BSA doesn't require a uniform to be a member.

[Beavah]

To be a member of a sports team or a band the participant MUST have a uniform.

 

Yah, and often it is provided for the lad free of charge.

 

B

 

[Basementdweller]

sporting uniforms are not free in our neck of the woods, Pay to play to the tune of $500 for the first sport and not to exceed $1200 per family.

 

 

You cannot tell me you haven't seen the kids around town in their soccer, baseball, football or cheerleading uniforms. Every Saturday in our town.

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Oak Tree]

For school programs, the uniforms are normally provided. For non-scholastic leagues, the parents often have to pay.

 

That is the one point of similarity between the Scout uniform and a youth soccer league uniform - the parents are expected to buy the uniform. And I agree, it would make sense that parents should be willing to pay to be part of the program. So I'll agree I'd rather not hear a parent gripe about the cost of the uniform when they are willing to pay big bucks for other youth programs.

 

But the reasons for wearing the uniform seem to be entirely different. I think most of our youth, especially our older youth, would view the uniform as more analogous to a McDonalds uniform. Something they have to wear because of the rules, but take off as soon as possible when the rules permit. Some employers even make you buy your own uniforms.

[Basementdweller]

Our public school programs are all pay to play.

 

Which in my opinion is fair since most of the high school parents expect their kids to get scholarships from their playing.

[uniform.knotsy]

This an interesting subject . . .

 

I just completed basic commissioner training and noticed that the experienced commissioners in my council did one or more of the following: 1.) Embellished certain uniform parts, 2.) Wore "permanent" patches on their uniforms, 3.) Were missing uniform parts, 4.) Wore multi-colored shirts beneath their uniform (it was cold), 5. Wore XX-L to XXXXX-L size uniforms. HOWEVER, they all APPEARED to be in full uniform.

 

Embellishments took the form of embroidered designs on leader tabs (letters, numbers, symbols, embroidered edges). Permanent patches included a 50th anniversary Jamboree patch, among others. Missing parts included socks, hats, and belts. Red or white long-sleeved shirts worn beneath short-sleeved uniform shirts (it looked sloppy). Most uniforms would be at least Large, but there were a few XXL and above.

 

So, I have a question for the uniform police on this board (I having been told to get in uniform at one point) . . .

 

Which of these five versions (and probably more) of a full uniform do you wear?

 

It seems to me that you enjoy casting stones when the real Chief Scout would rather write in the dirt. And what would he write?

 

Thou shalt not alter thy uniform without permission from the national office?

Thou shall have a uniform that reflects your current state in situation?

Thou shalt wear approved BSA socks before choosing rocks to cast at other Scouters who are out of uniform?

Thou shall not wear long undergarments with a short-sleeved shirt?

Thou shall not be glutinous, but conform to the new BSA health standards so you can go back-country camping with your unit? (An aside: The group picture of the National Key 3 in the same issue of Scouting that admonished us for being too fat was priceless. yes, I need to lose weight too )

 

Just asking . . .

 

[Basementdweller]

Since the ip address are logged

 

I would ask the moderator to see who uniform.knotsy is for sure and take appropriate action if it is needed.

[resqman]

It seems to me that you enjoy casting stones when the real Chief Scout would rather write in the dirt. And what would he write?

 

Thou shalt not alter thy uniform without permission from the national office?

No problem. No patches on my uniforms that are out of position or not earned. While the troop promotes the adults wearing a custom patrol patch for the adults, I do not not wear a patrol patch.

 

Thou shall have a uniform that reflects your current state in situation?

Full trained for my current position. All patches and insignia reflect my current status and training.

 

Thou shalt wear approved BSA socks before choosing rocks to cast at other Scouters who are out of uniform?

Last count I have at least 5 pairs of scout socks. If in uniform, I have on scout socks.

 

Thou shall not wear long undergarments with a short-sleeved shirt?

I have both long sleeve and short sleeved uniform shirts. If it is cold enough to wear under garments for warmth, I wear my long sleeved uniform. I wear short sleeved under shirts with my short sleeved uniform shirt to reduce sweat stains. If a troop meeting, it may be a white undershirt. If an outdoor event, it will be a troop T or scout logoed T since we may remove uniform shirts. Since I always wear a neckerchief with my uniform shirt, the T-shirts are not visible.

 

Thou shall not be glutinous, but conform to the new BSA health standards so you can go back-country camping with your unit?

While I am on the high end of the range, I am with in the range for my height. I will be attending a BSA high adventure base this coming summer and plan on losing a few lbs between now and them to ensure that at weigh in there is no chance I will be left at base camp.

[Oak Tree]

Maybe,

 

"I do not condemn you. Go, and rebel against the program no more."