Activity Uniforms - Why Scout pants?

[Eagle92]

OGE,

Prior to Aug. 1998, Venture patrols were called Venture Crews. When split Venturing from Exploring they decided to call the traditional side Venturing b/c that is the term used in a few other Scout Associations. I don't know why they decided to call Venturing units crews, but I can tell you the folks in my PDL-1 class, when informed of the then upcoming changed, did comment on the terminology being used and how it will cause some confusion. Which it has.

 

To make matter more interesting, maroon was the color associated with Venture Crews/Patrols. I believe the original color scheme for Venturing was suppose to be maroon and gold, not the green and gold now in use, but soemone decided to make the switch to green and gold. I have software from national with the maroon and gold logo, and notice how the old Venturing polos were maroon based.

[GKlose]

I'm not sure if this data point means much of anything, but I've recently had the experience of sitting through the new "This Is Scouting" videos about 5 times (district-level training).

 

One thing that struck me is how "posed" the videos are. Such as Cub Scout sitting down quickly and quietly when their den leader assembles them :-).

 

One such scene is the scene which describes troop leadership (SM, SPL, etc). It shows a troop on a campout, where they are all wearing tan-colored polo shirts (with FDL), and scout pants. Another scene shows a group of scouts hiking somewhere in the backcountry (no backpacks or day packs shown), and they are all wearing the red wool jac-shirts, and scout pants.

 

In general, it seems to me many troops do have some kind of activity uniform (a t-shirt at the very least) and national has certainly tried to sell us on activity uniforms. I think that's great, but they always seem to miss the mark by at least a little bit.

 

Guy

[Jeffrey H]

"Question: If a Scout is coming straight from a school meeting, and has a BOR, is he supposed to be in full uniform?"

Yes.  As you suggested in your post, they  would need to make arrangements to bring their uniform with them.

You're right.  We get what we expect.  Like every Troop, we choose what's most important and go with it.  We have some active scouts with real economic challenges and they are growing fast at this age.  Scouts pants are the first things they quickly outgrow. 

If your Troop demands full field uniform on every occassion, then more power to your Troop. 

National does not recognize or define the terms Class A, Class B or C.  These terms are defined by each Troop.

[acco40]

My pet peeve is troop committee members, who don't even own a uniform, complaining that the boys don't where their uniform!

 

When I was a Scoutmaster the boys always asked me when we did service projects, participated in parades or anything else in "public" in they "had" to wear their uniforms. I always responded that it is always appropriate to wear a Scout uniform to a Scouting event.

 

Yes, the "field uniform" term is still used quite frequently but the "activity uniform" term does seem to be phasing out. As for myself, I must admit that while packpacking at Double H a few years ago, I only wore my switchback pants for five of the seven days.

 

Q. What do you think is being accomplished by having uniform pants?

A. It keeps me from getting arrested!(This message has been edited by acco40)

[BDPT00]

Personal opinion here...

Regarding terminology (class A, field uniform, etc), it's obvious that class A and class B go together. To me, if one uses the term "field uniform" they would also use "activity uniform." I doubt that people would use field uniform and class B. That being said, my opinion is that activity uniform is still the proper ("official") term.

Am I wrong?

BDPT00

[Eagle92]

FREEZE, UNIFORM POLICE YOU ARE UNDER ARREST FOR USING IMPROPER UNIFORM TERMINOLOGY! (caps for humor)

 

Seriously, I don't think anyone will have a problem with terminology, just remember that at one time BSA did have an official Activity Uniform ( the aforementioned khaki shorts and polo shirt options)to go with the Field Uniform and the Dress Uniform.

 

EDITED: Also remember that for the longest time some folks had a problem with the terms Class A, etc, and you will find that term is a few BSA publications.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Oak Tree]

acco40, based on your Q and A, I'm wondering how you got away with not wearing your pants on the other two days. :-)

 

Maybe out in the backcountry nobody minds if you hike in your underwear?

[GKlose]

Didn't Colin Fletcher, in The Complete Walker, opine on the virtues of hiking nude? :-)

[BDPT00]

"Seriously, I don't think anyone will have a problem with terminology"

 

Are you kidding?!

It seems like half of the responses are mentioning it or putting it in quotes. It reminds me of someone saying, "I was an Eagle Scout." People jump on it.

The consistant answer I'm seeing appears to be that those who care about uniforming say wear the pants. I'm on that side of the fence.

BDPT00

 

 

[Eagle92]

Actually I was refering to callign the Field Uniform an activity uniform or Class A's.

 

As for uniform pants I am all for pants, but uniform shorts are fine as well.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I know this thread is about Scout pants with the Activity uniform, but to me the uniform is the uniform, so I will comment on it as a whole.

 

At the troop, we expect our leaders to wear a complete uniform to set an example for the scouts, and we do. For over a year, I had been working with the scouts to wear a complete uniform, which had been laxly enforced in the preceeding years. This was met with significant resistance, especially by our oldest scouts (who are now 17). As these older scouts began attending fewer meetings, more and more scouts began showing up in a uniform shirt with scout pants. I also began encouraging everyone to wear the troop neckerchiefs to/from outings, which had not been the case prior. Now we see more than 90% of our scouts at meetings in a scout pants and 80% or better are usually wearing a neckerchief.

 

We do expect that Class B (activity) uniform is worn with our troop t-shirts and scout pants. Our troop t-shirt is a bright yellow, very close to the bar at the top of this page. At events, we stand out! At the camporee a week ago, we were one of maybe 1 in 3 troops in a complete field uniform (including scout pants) and maybe one in 10 who were all wearing their neckerchief. While competing in events, our yellow shirts and scout pants were unmistakable. We are a small troop, but everyone else knows who we are, and they show us respect for it; we frequently receive complements about our dress, which in turn boosts the scouts up.

 

I believe that any troop who "chooses" not to wear complete uniforms are "growing" lesser scouts. They are being denied the opportunity to be proud of what they represent. Scouts who proudly wear a uniform learn a lot about other things too, like integretity and loyalty.

[resqman]

My son plays on a competitive travel sports team. They have designated uniforms for practice and for games. They have designated warm up suits and jackets. The coach expects the boys to attend in proper uniform. No uniform, you don't participate. The uniforming costs over $300 not including footwear. Coaches have made players remove coats in cold and rain because they were not the right color. It is a pay to play league. Players and parents alike understand and live by the rules.

 

Why should scouting expect any less of a scout? We have a uniform. You wear the uniform or you don't participate. If you are coming from some other event, then bring your uniform and change. You are part of the scout team and you will wear the uniform, completely and correctly. Half a uniform is not a uniform. Uni-form. One form. All alike. Scouting is not free. It is not inexpensive. It is an activity that costs money to participate. You pay for the uniform, books, materials, travel, activity fees, and equipment. Start a troop uniform closet and provide uniforms to those in need. Stop making excuses and letting the boys slide on partial and incorrect uniforming. Start with adults, then the boy leadership. Soon all the scouts will be uniformed. Once all uniformed, it becomes the troop culture and all new members learn that a full and complete uniform is part of the experience. If they want a partial experience, join the troop down the street who provides a partial program.

[Oak Tree]

Buffalo Skipper and resqman, it is certainly your perogative to think that other programs are growing lesser Scouts or providing a partial program. And I agree that you could get everyone to wear the full uniform by expecting it.

 

However, I just don't get the complete uniform as being a real essential part of the program. Most troops don't do it, around here, anyway. Some people would indeed be attracted to troops who wear the whole uniform. Others seem to really enjoy our troop's lesser focus on that and more attention to the other parts of the program. We've had a couple boys join our troop primarily because they wanted a group that was less rigid/demanding in that area. The boys do have standards and are not "anything goes", but we tend to focus on things they care about, not what the adults think will look sharp.

 

I think that the national average is about 95% of Boy Scouts come from Cub Scouts (I'm not sure where I remember that from). Our troop, though, has a much higher percentage of non-Cubs than that. I've got to like the fact that we have good word-of-mouth advertising. We also have a number of Scouts who have transferred to us from other units, but I can't think of any Scouts since I've been Scoutmaster who have left our troop for another local troop. We've been growing constantly over the past five years, and our retention is pretty good (just under half of our Scouts are 14 and up).

 

We have great camping trips, lots of fun, Scouts who really like hanging out with the group, some good Eagles coming out, and lots of adult volunteers who generally get the program. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. Are we a good troop for a lot of the Scouts? Absolutely yes.

 

So say what you want about "lesser Scouts" or "partial program". All troops are lesser in some areas and stronger in others. I have no expectation that I'll be able to bring you around to my position, but I know that those statements of yours are certainly not likely to bring me around to yours. I would like to think that as Scouters we could discuss our programs without feeling like we're being insulted by other members of the forum.

 

Thanks,

Oak Tree

[Buffalo Skipper]

Uniforming is a method of scouting. "Partial Uniforming" is not a method. These are the rules, plain and simple. I see scouters who don't view it as important as saying "The rules shouldn't apply to me/us, if we don't want them to do so."

 

By instilling that value in our youth, one reinforces the social stigma that rules don't always apply. Recently an NFL player $5000 for wearing the wrong color chin strap; he did so intentionally. Is the lesson of doing what you want because you want to do it the lesson you want to reinforce to your scouts?

 

When I see a scout in blue jeans and a uniform shirt, I see a scout who, clearly doesn't care to do what is right. When I see scouts in scout pants when those around him are not, I see a young man who does care. Scouts know what is right and wrong as far as the uniform goes.

 

If I see an Eagle scout in jeans and a uniform shirt I wonder which other methods his leaders decided to only go part way on. Leadership? Maybe fewer Eagle requirements? Or perhaps it was too much trouble to have a boy-led troop rather than an adult led one?

 

Uniforming is a mirror into the troop. At least for the troops in my are it is. A quick glance will tell me right off the bat which are running good BSA programs and which only go part way.

[Jeffrey H]

When I see a scout in blue jeans and a uniform shirt, I see a scout who, clearly doesn't care to do what is right.

If that is they case, then the BSA is full of juvenile delinquents with a complete lack of moral direction. 

As I mentioned earlier, many scouts will wear their jeans on active outings to save their scout pants for later to keep them clean for flag ceremonies, meetings, and special occassions.  It has nothing to do with their moral character or their sense of right and wrong.  Many, like my son, have only one pair and my son has already outgrown his.  Fortunately, they are zip-offs and he can keep wearing the shorts for a little longer.  Time to go out and drop another $40.00. 

Yes, the full uniform is preferable and looks sharp, but full uniform 100% of the time is something we only see in Normal Rockwell paintings where every boy is affluent and has several sets of uniforms he can wear everyday.