Should Unit Numerals touch Council Patch if No Veteran Unit Bar?

[Eagle92]

2cub,

Actually it's easier than it looks. I am by no means an expert in sewing, but even I can get it right.

 

 

[PeteM]

How about if you don't wear the CSP, but the City and State patches?

I wear those instead of the Council patch.

[AvidSM]

Are we allowed to wear the city and state patch in lieu of the CSP?

[Eagle92]

To the best of my knowldge yes.

[ScoutNut]

From the BSA Insignia Guide -

 

"Districts are operational arms of the local council. Individuals are not identified as residents of a district, but of the local council and the Boy Scouts of America. For this reason district insignia is not authorized for wear on the uniform."

 

I would think that a city/state patch falls under this rule, and therefore would NOT be authorized to wear on the uniform.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Scoutnut,

I would disagree as the City and State strips are the predecessor to the CSP, and are the same shape, generally speaking, as the CSP. Lots of older units have a history of wearing "RnWs."

 

What that passage is reference to district pacthes being worn in the location for regional patches, i.e. right arm. Yep I've seen district patches and have been told that's where they are worn. But as the section states district insignia is a no-no.

[AvidSM]

I don't see anywhere in the BSA Insignia Guide where the City and State patch is allowed in lieu of the Council Shoulder Emblem/Patch.

 

It does say: "All council shoulder emblems must contain identification including one of the following: corporate name (Boy Scouts of America); corporate initials (BSA), BSA fleur-de-lis (universal with eagle or plain one-color), "Venturing BSA", or "Venturing"."

 

Since the City and State patches don't contain any of the manditory identification, how can they be allowed?

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Good question. Community and state strips, aka Red and Whites or RnWs, official insignia and were worn prior to CSPs became the norm in 1970. From http://www.gilwell.com/firstCSP/

 

Now the challenge comes in to whether you can mix or match insignia and/or uniform parts? Some say you can, others say you can't, and I can find nothing in BSA literature on this topic EXCEPT for the pdf file national put out in referecne to the ODL and Centennial uniform, whcih says ODL and CU items can be worn together. And that only says the shirts, socks, pants, etc are interchangable, nothing about insignia.

 

Now my wife's uniform will in the near future have the RnWs on it, but then again it's a vintage 1950s den mother uniform

 

[ScoutNut]

Eagle92, nothing in the passage from the Insignia Guide states that it is refering to wearing the District Patches in place of Regional patches (which are not to be worn by unit Scouters at all). The passage is directly below the one describing Council Shoulder Emblems, and seems to be saying that the only affilliation emblem needed is the Council Shoulder Emblem.

 

As for the community/state strips, I would agree they might be allowed only if they were original "vintage" patches. However, because BSA National is no longer producing these patches, or approving Councils to produce them, any new patches of this sort produced by either councils, or individuals, would not be approved for uniform wear.

 

Personally, I have seen any number of strange things on uniforms, and while I might not approve, and in some cases even think the wearer a bit goofy, I am most certainly not going to chew them out for it. Their choice, not mine.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Scoutnut,

I've seen repro insignia worn on uniforms, and in some aspects it seems approved by national. Case in point is Ship's Stores repro knots on navy and white backgrounds. Go to the sea scout website and they are a predominate supplier for Sea Scout uniforms. I got a few of the white knots for my uniform as they look a heck of alot better than the khaki knots. Also I know of one unit that orders the repro RmWs in bulk, and have seen some custom jobs that are all in one; City and state, vet bar, and unit number. I beleive the former unit uses national supply for the orders, but don't quote me on it.

 

In reference to district insignia in lieu of regional insignia on right arm. Your right their is no mention of the location in the IG passage. My info is coming from what I've seen as a volunteer and have been told as a former employee for supply.

 

Like you I have seen lots of strange things on the uniform.

[BDPT00]

I'm seeing a mixed message on the district patch question. There shouldn't be any confusion. It's not allowed.

BDPT00

[Eagle92]

BD,

Correct it's not allowed. BUT as we all know some don't always follow the rules. And when 90% of the time I've seen folks wear a district patch, it's on the right sleeve (the other 10% I've seen it worn as a temp patch on the pocket on youth, but that's a different story). Plus it doesn't help when a DE is encouraging folks to buy the district patch in which the sales go into event budget.

 

Yep when I worked in supply, we had one of council's DEs create and sell a district patch, and we had lots of new leaders being told by him and the district vols that they needed a district patch for the uniform. The kept coming in and asking for it, and we had to be the 'bad guys."

[BDPT00]

"Correct it's not allowed. BUT as we all know some don't always follow the rules."

 

True. Then it's the responsibility of those who follow rules (a Scout is Obedient) to set the example. I happen to be one who chooses to where the uniform properly.

BDPT00

 

 

[Eagle92]

BD,

I hear ya. But for whatever reason, the UCs don't inspect the leaders, only the scouts. Wish it would change as it would help the leaders set the example.

 

As for me, I am guilty of being "out of uniform" at times. Depending upon which shirt I'm wearing, I may be "out of uniform" as several of my shirts do have a regional patch form my time as a DE. Took one patch off, and it was obvious that a regional patch was worn on the sleeve. However the bulk of my shirts are correct.

[Eagle92]

ok I am trying to find a specific video requested for the district banquet, and I came across this recent video with a youth wearing the BROWNSEA strip between the CSP and unit numbers and and BROWNSEA temp insignia.