I Design a Uniform

[SctDad]

I was looking over the things that were said. I have one question about the epaulets. How many in the OA have run their sash under the epaulet to help keep it from falling off. So before you say it has absolutely no use think of scouting all around.

 

The shirt needs to stay collared, i just think it looks better.

 

I think the bolo looks good. I like it as a CS leader.

 

All in all, we need to make the program where boys are PROUD to be a scout, not just something they do once a week and go camping.

[eatmorefrogs]

Speaking of class B uniforms, that's what this thread is designing. The primary purpose of the class A uniform is not utility, it's to look good. Complaints about the epaulets and the material seem to be completely mislead since they neglect the purpose of the uniform.

 

A class A uniform is for when you want to look classy - it's a look-sharp, fanfare-driven, we're-ready-to-carry-the-flag-in-a-parade uniform. Sure, the epaulets aren't practical, but practical isn't the goal of the uniform. The uniform, like military class A uniforms, is to look good and, in our case, establish a brand. Epaulets look good - they're in style right now (and have been for a few hundred years) on class A uniforms in all organizations. And they don't cost much compared to the depth they add to the look of the uniform.

 

Camp ready? Camp ready means class B. Sure, wear it to and from camp - look sharp. Wear it at flag ceremonies at summer camp - look sharp. Wear it in the backwoods? Give me a break.

[Stosh]

I'm thinking the shoulder loops were after WWI because the doughboy wore a stand-up collar tunic which the early BSA did as well. The stand-up collar allowed for the BSA brass on the right collar and the rank pin on the other. Nothing but PL/APL stripes went on the sleeve. These collar pins showed above the necker.

 

The original uniform tunics were wool and were in fact similar to the jac-shirt of today. The uniform included another khaki cotton shirt underneath. Being wool they were extremely durable and could take the abuse of the military as well as the boys.

 

Were they hot in the summer? Yep, but that's what canteens are for.

 

In my book, one either gets durability or comfort. There's no such thing as a lightweight shirt that will hold up in the long run of abuse. With the tunic/shirt combo, the boy could take off the uniform coat when he needed to do a strenuous or dirty activity and then would put it back on when he was done. This could be done with wearing a BSA t-shirt under the uniform shirt and then taking the uniform shirt off when doing strenuous/dirty activities.

 

Stosh

[Kahuna]

Some good ideas, but I demand a collar and will NOT wear a neckerchief. I wore one for 10 years as a Cub and a Scout and some as an adult. No more.

 

Looking back at our uniforms, I think the dark green Explorer shirt with the olive green shorts and olive green knee socks was the best looking and not impractical. I would have no problem with either the dark green or the olive or even the current olive (DLR)for shirt and pants. The only thing I really like about the new uniform is the long-sleeve shirt with roll up sleeve feature. Looks very traditional and Scouty. I'm okay with cargo pants for kids, but should be optional for adults. I agree with those who say the shoulder loops should be for adults only. The kids don't need 'em.

 

First and foremost, though, is to go back to the quality of the old uniforms. I have a couple of 1930's uniforms that a kid could wear to camp today. We need rugged stuff like that. They can be handed down for years. It wouldn't be hard to do, it seems to me.

[Mr. Boyce]

With respect to the military origins of the epaulet, I would submit that just as many youth are turned OFF by the military aspects as are turned ON. But both groups would be up for a general outdoorsman look.

 

I know there are ex-military here, but I do need to point that out. I'd be wary of publicly billing the Boy Scouts of America as just another kind of Junior ROTC of some sort. That wouldn't be good for anybody.

[Mr. Boyce]

. . . I'll get knocks for this sure, but bolo ties just remind me of retired guys.

[Kahuna]

. . . I'll get knocks for this sure, but bolo ties just remind me of retired guys.

 

And what's wrong with us retired guys? (. . .

adjusting black socks with shorts and sandals.)

[NJCubScouter]

Eatmorefrogs, it seems to me that the person who started this thread thought he was designing a Class A uniform, not a "Class B uniform."

 

As for epaulets, you may think they look good. I don't think they necessarily look either good or bad. But I do think that if there's going to be something on the uniform, it ought to have some purpose. If one believes (as I do) that the loops that go on the epaulets are silly and unnecessary -- and in the case of the new green (if that's what it is) loop, DON'T look good -- then the epaulets are unnecessary as well. (I can think of ways of making the loops more informative, but they would REALLY make it look more military-like and I don't think national would want to do that.)

 

But I think Scouting will go on with or without the loops.

[NJCubScouter]

Mr Boyce,

 

Here is what I don't understand in this discussion: How would a collarless shirt make the uniform look MORE like the "Norman Rockwell" model of Scouting? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly here, but it seems to me that when I became a Boy Scout (late 60's), the shirts had collars, and most of the Rockwell Scouting paintings that I have seen show shirts with collars (though in many cases it's difficult to really tell because of the large neckerchief!) Unless I'm mistaken, it was only in the early 70's when the collarless shirt came out. The uniform that I have hanging up in my closet from my Scouting days (which I don't even come close to fitting into these days) was probably purchased around 1974. It is a collarless shirt and has "Scout BSA" above the pocket (rather than Boy Scouts of America.) It is green, I am not sure what shade you'd call it. Is THAT what you want to go back to? It doesn't look very Rockwell-esque to me.

 

Since I was out of Scouting by the late 70's, I don't really know when the current-style shirts came in. I take it that these are the "Oscar de la Renta" shirts that people talk about. When my son started as a Tiger in the late 90's and I saw leaders wearing uniforms (and a couple years later, bought one myself), I didn't realize that some major style revolution had occurred. I figured it was just a new shirt. And I do like the two-tone of the shirt and pants. If you are trying to stay away from a military look, it seems to me the LAST thing you want to do is make the shirt and pants the same color. The late-60's style uniform that I started with definitely had a military look to it, especially with that "flat hat" (I think it is officially called the overseas cap.)

[NJCubScouter]

Aha, I found an example of the mid-70's uniform, it's even from 1974: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boy_Scout_uniform_1974.jpg . (That is one large neckerchief, compared to the kid wearing it. And check out those skill awards. Fortunately my only connection with the skill awards was to pass younger kids on them, since I made First Class before the whole system changed.)

 

So, is THAT what you want to go back to?

 

(Edit: Trying to fix the link.)(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[Mr. Boyce]

He's a short kid. Look at that pack on him! I'd drop the skill award stuff, too, make the uniform less olive green, maybe dark green (someone above made some good sounds on that) and drop the garters. Long socks actually are pretty good in the outdoors.

[NJCubScouter]

That photo does take me back. I wore those garters with the green fringe, and the the shirt does seem to have the "Scout BSA" label on it. My younger brother wore that kind of cap, which I think was the first baseball-type cap to be used in the BSA. (I could be wrong about that, but before that it was the overseas cap and before that it was the campaign hat. In the early 70's they gave troops the option of the re-introduced campaign hat, the red beret or the baseball cap; I'm not sure if the overseas cap was still an option. Our troop voted for the campaign hat but within a couple of years the younger kids started wearing the baseball cap, not sure if there was a second vote or what, and then those of us who had been to Philmont started wearing the Philmont baseball hat.)

 

And yes, that is a big backpack for the kid, but that part reminds me of my younger brother too. Of course, "the kid" in this photo is now almost 50. Maybe he's even reading this.

[Stosh]

Hmmm... The process of elimination -

 

the military wears uniforms.... but we don't want to look like the military.

 

sports teams wear uniforms.... but if we are worried about epaulets, shoulder pads would be worse....

 

Police and firefighters wear uniforms, but they are patterned after the military....

 

musical groups wear uniforms, but tuxedos would be kinda impractical in the woods....

 

Doctors and nurses wear uniforms, but white won't work in the woods either....

 

The choices are rather limited....

 

Hunters wear blaze orange... That might work, but I'm thinking the boys may not go for the color and as someone said about the red/white patches, it would be scaring the animals even more.

 

We've eliminated the Orkin man....

 

Coveralls might work... then the boys get to put their names in red/white ovals over their pockets... but then people might mistake them for a janitor or auto mechanic.

 

Business suits wouldn't work either.

 

White t-shirts and blue jeans might work, but then that's what everyone is wearing.... The boys wouldn't be recognized as scouts.

 

collar/no collar could be solved by having no shirt....

 

shorts/long pants (no one wants to pay extra for socks) and long pants are not as comfortable...

 

Hats and neckers are optional so we can do away with those....

 

Eureka! Simple solution Class A's are boxers and Class B's are briefs.... Both would have fleur-de-lis on the bands. See how simple that is!

 

Stosh

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

What about the OA boxers they came out with a few yers ago, could we wear them instead of the sash for Class A's?

[boomerscout]

BSA had shirts without collars in late 50s/early 60s. They were used with the shorts & kneesocks. Concurrent was shirt with collar-to be used with the trousers (with the silly button flaps on the front pockets)