A real Centennial Uniform

[Eagle92]

Chatt,

the short shorts were approx. 1970s and definately 1980s, and that was the style of the times.

 

As for vintage uniforms and today's youth, I know of several guys in my lodge who also wear vintage uniforms. And if memory serves, there is a waiting list for folks to wear one of our member's collection of historic uniforms at special event that he is putting his display up.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[SSScout]

Try to find "Matching Mountains with the Boy Scout Uniform"

by Edward F. Reimer, 1929 E.P.Dutton & Co., N.Y.

History and insignia of that day.

[MDScoutMom]

It's nice to see other people with point of view.

 

As a reenactor, I'm all for wearing the old style uniform. FYI, here is a good pic of the top:

http://www.njscoutmuseum.org/treasures.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BSA_War_Service_Uniforms_1917_18.jpg

Also some great pics from through the years at:

http://histclo.com/Youth/youth/org/sco/country/us/scoutus.htm

If it comes up asking for a password, just hit cancel. Usually it lets me see all the pics anyway. Go figure.

http://bowrose.com/NewTroopContent/pages/HISTORICPHOTOS.htm

 

When you look at the picture from NJ (1911 top) you see how there was some lack of uniformity. The merit badges in 1910 were embroidered on square cloth; some scouts sewed them to their sleeve in that shape & some cut and tucked under the cloth so they were round. Also, I am not sure if the sash was yet part of the uniform, but I think it was. Anyway, some scouts applied badges directly to the right sleeve, whereas some used a false sleeve to display the badges for special occasions like a court of honour. At least that is what I have read.....I'm not that old, LOL. Also of interest is the fact that in 1916 the US banned all uniforms that looked similar to that of the Army, except for that of the BSA.

 

I am more versed about the WWII uniform, as that is what my son wears when our family does WWII reenacting. He wears an original uniform from 1938. I date it from then because we have the entire uniform, including the information on the scout they belonged to and his membership card for the BSA is dated 1938. I know he wore it up to 1941 at least because the shirt has a 1941 camp badge on it. He was still wearing the knickers at that time, even though the shorts had been introduced in the 30's. If you look at pictures of groups of WWII scouts, you often see scouts wearing both knickers and the long pants (introduced in 1943) as well as different shades of shirts. I think it depended on what they could afford and sometimes that had to wear hand-me-downs. I like the knickers better anyway.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it true that as long as the uniform is correct it is alright to wear past uniform styles? I know you can't wear the 1910 jacket with 1943 pants but if everything is correct I was under the impression that the uniform could be worn if the scout wished.

 

As for the hat, just wearing the campaign hat one day out all day in the sun and my son really wished his troop would wear them all the time. No sun burn!!

[MDScoutMom]

Eagle92:

 

At the end of February another troop is putting on a hobby show for one day near us. My son is going to join in and display his vintage Scout uniforms, some equipment, badges, and book. It's not a huge collection, it is still in its early stages. He will be displaying his 1938/WWII uniform by wearing it. it should be fun.

[emb021]

"When you look at the picture from NJ (1911 top) you see how there was some lack of uniformity. The merit badges in 1910 were embroidered on square cloth; some scouts sewed them to their sleeve in that shape & some cut and tucked under the cloth so they were round. Also, I am not sure if the sash was yet part of the uniform, but I think it was."

 

It was a while before the sash was an official part of the uniform. I want to say the 20s, but am not sure off the top of my head.

 

Merit badges were worn on the sleeve. I don't know if there was any standard for sewing them down fully square, trimming them, or crimping them (folding them under). National actually themselves started to issue them crimped, giving 2 additional varients (wide and narrow crimped edges).

 

Soon, National issues a 'false sleeve' so that the merit badges could be sewn on it, and then the sleeve pulled on over the uniform sleeve. As I understand it, some people were making their own sashes for merit badges, National found out, and I guess decided that was a better idea, so brought it out (and limited the number of merit badges to the sleeve to 6).

 

[emb021]

I checked my copy of mitch reis's work.

 

The false sleeves were rolled out in 1916.

 

Merit sashes were first used for the 1924 World Jambo contingent, then available for sale.

 

They started crimping merit badges in 34.

 

[MDScoutMom]

Thanks for the dates, I need to get that book. As someone said elsewhere, information can be very sketchy looking online (also contradictory at times). I have some of the square badges, but no "tweens". Our concentration has always been on WWII. Lucky I have my father-in-law's sash as one reference. I really want to dig through the chest where he keeps some of those type of things because he says he is not sure, but he may have been at the 1937 jamboree in D.C. I'd love to see if he has the ribbon for it.

[HICO_Eagle]

I would much rather have a real centennial uniform than the piece of garbage they released. Too bad I can't get into that aefsupply.com website. I was under the impression that quite a bit of BSA gear in our early years (including the uniform) had its origins in military surplus -- one of the reasons why National's current rules annoy me. Wish I could pick up a uniform like the one I wore as a brand new Scout in 1978.

[rmeints]

The two best places I have found to get a reproduction scout uniform from the teens are:

 

http://www.schipperfabrik.com/ami_uniforms.html (1912 cotton tunic and breeches for $224.95

-or-

http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=42

 

Every other place I have found is overseas, which means more expensive shipping and such.

 

Buying a reproduction WW1 US Army tunic does mean you have to ask for a few modifications if you want a more exact match to what Scouts actually wore. Both of the above companies are willing to leave off the epaulets, and to either leave off the US army buttons or sew on buttons you provide.

 

As for me, I am having them sew on original BSA "Be Prepared" brass buttons that I bought on ebay and another online seller. You will need 4 of the smaller sized buttons for the 4 pockets and 5 larger sized ones for buttoning up the tunic. I got all 9 with a few spares for about $30. That sounds reasonable for vintage brass buttons that are at least 80 years old.

 

Getting a reproduction outfit is going to set me back over $300, which doesn't include any patches, collar brass, shoes, etc. The least expensive route would be to buy an actual vintage US Army WW1 tunic and switch the buttons yourself, but I'd rather get one tailored to fit me. Both of the above companies ask for a detailed set of your measurements so the uniform will fit you very well. This is not buying something off of a rack.

 

I went with cotton fabric instead of wool because it is about half the price of wool and because what I have been told is that Scouts wore cotton more often than wool.

 

Mitch Reis (www.mitchreis.com) was helpful, and I recommend his books on uniforms and such.

 

[ScoutBox]

I don't mind the new uniform. I do think that making it in the USA would have been a better idea.. But the layout isn't bad. I have the light weight long sleeve, and the heavier short sleeve versions. I also have the Switchback pants, but don't really like the cut of them.. I have two pairs of the older trousers and have been wearing those to meetings, but in the field wear the Switchbacks.. they are light weight, and will dry faster. I don't like the velcro closers on the shirt pockets.. I would prefer buttons all around..

 

One interesting thing I saw at Kandersteg last month was that many Military based TAC troops were using Velcro on the shoulders, and pockets to attach patches.. The reason behind this was due to the fact that boys were moving around so much, that they were changing Troops every 3 years. or less. and Adults were using the same shirts for different troops and functions they were working with. I do like the idea of having Velcro Rank for the Scout uniforms.. My son has gone from Scout to 2nd Class in 6 months.. will new his new rank this March at the CoH. So It would help out a bit with sewing on the new ranks.. also I like the idea of having velcro on the right side pocket because of the different events patches like Council patches, Kandersteg etc.. that comes along often, and the boys seem to like to change patches as they get them.. also by making velcro on the uniform through out would make it easier for the boys to get their uniforms together over here.. Sewing a uniform up here in CH, costs an arm and a leg..

[Eagle92]

Scout,

How much is a needle and thread in Switzerland? Only cost I've found in sewing patches on as a youth and adult was the cost of a color threrad I didn't have. I think the most i've speant on thread is $3.50 (heavy duty gold mylar thread)and $.99 for a pack of needles.

[Eagle92]

Ok in rereading my last post, it may sound snarky, which is not how I intended. I lived in the UK briefly, and know that prices for common items here are a lot more expensive over there. Try paying about $8 for 2 batteries!

[allenj]

I believe that Supply Division's new larger neckercheifs a step in the right direction. I did not care for the Centenial uniforms whwn I first saw them. But then again I didn't care for the ODR uniforms at first. Regardless of,style neither uniform is made for camping or outdoor use. Even the camping hardware from BSA is less rugged than the good old Army surplus we grew up with. When BSA discovered that they could make money selling uniforms, they changed styles. The uniform was Tan until after world Two. Since there was a flood of army surplus tan or Kakhi uniforms around BSA changed to green. When the army did away with tan uniforms, here comes the tan shirt with epaulets. The marines still use a tan shirt without epaulets.

So actually, the new uniform is only a style change and not an improvement

[MDScoutMom]

rmeints:

 

Here is another place that makes the 1912 uniform; it is overseas (India) but I have dealt with them. My husband purchased a class A British WWII through them. The quality was fantastic, the shipping was not outrageous and best of all, they were quick and had great communication:

 

http://www.replicaters.com/ww1USAEFuniforms.html

 

What were the buttons like at that time? Are they the same shank back using the ring attachers that the shirt had in WWII?

[Brian85]

The World Jamboree is coming up in Sweden...Why not go with Denim pants, beaded cowboy shirt, leather belt with BIG buckle, brown cowboy boots, and a 'Hoss Cartwright' Stetson? It would be awesome to see that at the WJ. After the first two days, when all the participants have traded for the USA uniform, we could go back to something more comfortable.

 

TAKERS?