When Did You Notice Uniforming Becoming an "Option"

[Stosh]

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if a boy showed up for a football game without his uniform pants, or a soccer game, or a parade if his band was marching? Or if the police wore blue jeans, or combat soldiers had Wal-Mart knock offs?

 

If a scout can't afford a full uniform, he wears civies. This half-way attempt is sending the message that a job half-done is okay.

 

Hey, if I wear blue jeans to work on days not designated as jeans days, I will be sent home to change, and my pay will be docked for the time.

 

A scout is Thrifty. Get off the sofa and away from the computer and go out rake a few lawns, run some errands for a neighbor, or shovel some walks, but it's not a hardship to expect the boys to wear a complete uniform because a half-hearted attempt just doesn't cut it.

 

My Venturing boys cough up $1200 for full gear and don't complain one bit. A $15 pair of E-Bay pants isn't asking too much of anyone. After all $15 is about the cost the boys would kick in for on a Camporee.

 

It's not the cost that is the problem, it's the attitude.

 

Stosh

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Ditto to jblake!

 

People use the cost as an excuse to not uniform. Any unit worth it's salt is doing some sort of annual fundraiser. Even the kids who won't go out on their own and mow a lawn to earn the money can particpate in a fundraiser and make enough to purchase uniform parts. If we don't teach these concepts, how is a scout supposed to learn and put "thrifty" into practice? Why is it acceptable to skip over one method of scouting, but not the others?

 

Is a uniform required? No. Is it implied? Yes, we are a uniformed movement. The uniform serves a purpose.

 

If we are going to do this job, don't we have a responsibility to at least do it as correctly as possible? If we don't, what are we teaching the boys in our units?

[GernBlansten]

There is a very simple solution to this conundrum.

Lobby national to change the requirements for each rank to include "Present yourself to your board of review in a complete and correct official BSA uniform." If enough scouters make enough noise, they will listen.

National seems to change the requirements almost annually. Why not just slip this one in too. It would help their bottom line too.

 

But the real question would be, would this increase or decrease participation in BSA? Does the uniform draw the boy to scouting? Or would it drive those away who want a more informal program?

 

As it stands, the sport/marching band uniform analogy just doesn't work. You must purchase/lease the uniform to participate in those activities. If you don't, you sit out. Until BSA does the same thing, you simply can't apply that comparison.

[RememberSchiff]

Back in the 60's, prior to the introduction of the "Uniform Method", we had more scouts and more scouts in uniform. Far few adults self-designating themselves as uniform police too. The district Neighborhood Commissioner did unit inspections once or more a year as a requirement for unit rechartering. If the unit was not fully present and not fully (and cleanly) uniformed, the unit and SM were in doubt to get re-charterd. Yes back then, the BSA maintained quality control over the program in chartered units. Today, there is no mention of uniforms on the Quality Unit form after all uniforms are optional.

 

Another historical point, wearing the uniform then was a privilege bestowed only until a scout EARNED Tenderfoot. New civilian-dress scouts wanted to quickly fit in with the older uniformed scouts and to belong they had to EARN the privilege. You were expected to be a scout at all times, uniform or not. Strong lessons all but lost today.

 

I intend to wear a red beret and an Oscar De la Renta shirt for Halloween and scare other old scouters.

 

My $0.02

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

I understand and agree with your point Gern. That being said, does the band or sports uniform attract a youth to that program or is it the activity of the program that attracts them?

 

I know as far back as when I was in high school in the 70's, the band kids hated wearing the geeky band uniforms and got made fun off. They loved band, just hated the uniform. Sports is a little different in that sport participants are seen as manly jocks and heroes and therefore their uniforms are more acceptable. But the bottom line is that it is the program in each instance that actually attracts. The uniform simply identifies the member as a participant in the activity.

[BrentAllen]

Sorry, Beavah, but I see exactly the opposite. The correctly uniformed Troops around here are very active, have their act together, and act like Scouts (Scout Spirit). The units with poor uniforming? Not so much.

 

I just don't get it - why do our Scouts, and others nearby, have no problem with uniforming? Other than when they first join, I don't say a thing to them about uniforming, yet we have nearly 100% in uniform at every meeting. When the Troop forms up, they give Patrol reports, with the number present, absent and number in complete uniform (including Scout book). The Scribe records this information, which is used for the Quarterly Honor Patrol competition. This competition has become fierce, so the boys don't want to let their patrol down by not being in uniform. (points are awarded for % in attendance, and % in complete uniform) We adults don't have to say a word to any Scout about uniforms - the boys take care of it all.

 

This has spilled over to our Class B uniform, as well, even though they don't count in the Honor Patrol competition. The boys all wear our Troop t-shirts (poly)and the BSA Action shirt, along with Switchbacks, while on campouts. We look like a Troop, at all times. Again, I mention this when the boy joins, and I don't say anything about it afterwards. The parents like it because they know exactly what clothing their son needs for Scouting. It helps on our end, in that we don't see the boys showing up in cotton or blue jeans. They have the appropriate clothing for camping.

 

This is so simple, I just can't figure out all the carping about uniforms. What would we say about Troops that only went on a few campouts a year, or had only a few boys advancing? Those are methods, just like uniforming. Most of us wouldn't think very highly of a Troop with a poor Outdoor or Advancement program, but yet we cut lots of slack and make up all kinds of excuses for poor uniforming. And criticism of poor uniforming is completely off limits, but criticism of poor camping or advancement is perfectly fine. That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[GernBlansten]

In the case of the marching band uniform, yes the youth loathe them. Too dated, garish and ornamental. Sound familiar? They wear them only during the performance and immediately stripped off at the first opportunity. In fact, our marching band only wears them for competition performances and during home football games half times. Probably 10 times a year.

But they don't wear them during practices or meetings. They don't wear them when doing non-marching activities like pep band. Not when they audition for chair selection. They don't even wear them at the end of season banquet. Heck, they don't even wear them for our county fair parade anymore. They do have to wear their band t-shirts though.

[GernBlansten]

Brent,

If your observations are accurate, BSA should not walk, but run to mandatory uniforming. We need to increase participation and do everything in our power to reverse the decline in membership.

[SR540Beaver]

Gern,

 

How much of scouting is actually mandatory by written rule? Isn't the goal to get youth to decide to do the right thing for the right reasons rather than force them?

 

If they are forced to advance, forced to camp, forced to wear a uniform, then what is the purpose of the program? What are they learning?

[GernBlansten]

SR, you make an interesting point.

What if we made camping mandatory (min nights per year), or advancement mandatory (up or out). Would our program be stronger? Perhaps. Nationally mandated uniforming would be a good start.

 

Letting units (or the boys) decided what's important and not having any national standards is what causes this hand wringing. It separates us, not brings us together.

[BadenP]

You guys comparing your scouting experience of 20-30 years ago to scouting of today are out of touch with the reality and youth of today. The world today is very different from when we were kids as Beavah was trying to point out in his posts. I can see the full uniform for formal occassions or jamborees, but for weekly meetings? You guys notice that in offices today the office workers,managers,and executives rarely wear a suit anymore, the tie is considered obsolete. The only time I wear a suit anymore is to weddings and funerals. So you ex military and those living in the good old days types, look around you the world is a very different place today and is not going to go back in time to the dress codes of yesteryear.

[BrentAllen]

Gern,

I'm not interested in quantity - only quality. It has been my experience that when a quality program is offered (either Scouts or otherwise), those who are truly interested in the program will follow, and the program will grow. When number counters take over and are mainly interested in quantity, the program gets diluted to appease a broader base. The program will grow for a short while, but will eventually start to decline as the quality deteriorates - more and more concessions are made to draw in more and more people. Those who initially made the program strong will leave, as they don't recognize the program as the same one they joined.

 

I am very clear with prospective parents - I am interested in working with boys who really want to be Scouts. Boys who want to go camping, who want to go to meetings every week, who want to advance, who want to serve, and who want to wear the uniform. The growth of our Troop, from 6 to 26 Scouts in two years, shows there are plenty of boys who really want to be Scouts, and want to wear the uniform - even in 2009.

[BadenP]

Not to split hairs here but 26 boys is hardly an overwhelming endorsement for wearing the full uniform, sorry Brent. It would be nice to see more scouts in full uniform and maybe if National priced the uniform more reasonably and improved the quality of workmanship and materials maybe we would. However Beavah's points about the changes in our society are equally as valid.

[BrentAllen]

OK, BadenP. A Troop down the street added 18 boys this spring, moving up to over 50 Scouts, full uniform with custom neckerchiefs. Another Troop down the street has 65 Scouts, all full uniform. Another Troop in Dunwoody has just under 50 boys, again, a full uniform Troop. Including our 26, that is around 190. Next summer, there will be around 40,000 at the Jambo, in full uniform.

 

So, why do these boys wear the uniform, and others won't?

[BadenP]

Jamboree is an exception to the rule as a full uniform is a requirement in order to even go, so taking out those 40,000 leaves 190 in Dunwoody, GA and I am willing to bet if you did a weekly troop meeting uniform check you would find at least half not in full uniform on a weekly basis. Requiring and then enforcing the rule are two very different things, even though a scout might even own a complete uniform but wearing it to every meeting does not generally happen, based on my years of experience, and many other fellow SM's with a troop. How many times have you seen a kid running in from a practice or other activity throw on their uniform shirt as they come in. IMHO, at least the boy is there and is interested in the program and I am not going to send him home because of no scout pants. Brent, scout spirit means a lot more to me than a pair of pants any day of the week.(This message has been edited by BadenP)