Neckerchiefs - the Great Conundrum

[MikeS]

Hello all,

 

I was hoping to get some thoughts on what the "official" way to wear the Boy Scout neckerchief is - I have been told it can be done two ways; either under the collar as in Cub Scouts or over the collar (however, I think over the collar requires the collar to be "turned in", i.e. tucked into the neck of the shirt).

 

I my troop they are worn, supposedly in the "traditional" manner, of over the collar (collar NOT turned/tucked into the shirt).

 

Personally, I think it looks horrible and I think we should wear them under the collar, but just wondering what the "official rule" is regarding the Boy Scout neckerchief.

 

I've also been told it is up to the troop as to how it's worn , as along as everyone is consistant.

 

Is there some sort of tradition of wearing it over the collar?? I can see it for maybe some of the very old style nerckerchief that were very long and somewhat large, but the newer smaller ones?? We wear the "Kente cloth" neckerchiefs in our troop -if any of you have these, you know it's a very thick, stiff material and does not roll very easily.

 

Any input would be most welcomed.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

Way back in the dark ages (the mid-70's) the uniform shirts that I had did not have a collar. The neck hole was finished with a wide hem. The neckerchief sat on top of that and was a required uniform item, as the shirt looked rather silly withhout it. I think collared shirts were available for adults, but for youth the official uniform was the collarless shirt. Later, say about 1978, collared shirts for youth became available, and when you wore a collared shirt you did not wear a necker, and if you did I believe it was a rule that the collar be turned under. That may be the origin of the practice you cited. It appears that the current insignia guide allows them to be worn over or under the collar, but with no mention of turning the collar under.

 

To my eyes it looks like a compromise either way you do it, since the shirts aren't made the way I'm accustomed to seeing them worn with a necker, but I guess I'm just showing my age. At any rate, I'd say it's the boys decision how they want their uniform to look, just be happy they're in uniform at all.

 

Regards,

 

DWS

[MikeS]

DWS - thanks for the response - I was in Scouting about that time as well (Cub Scouts), but do not seem to recall the collarless shirts - it does indeed sound like the possible origin of that practice.

 

My son actually looked it up yesterday evening and apparenlty the official guide (not sure where he got it from, I'd have to check) does say that if worn oover the collar, the collar is to be tucked/turned in.

 

Hmmmm..I'll have to check.

[OldGreyEagle]

Mike, check: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34283.pdf

 

Under the heading shirt and neckwear you will find the following:

 

"The troop/team may vote to wear a neckerchief, bolo

tie, or no neckwear. In any case, the collar should be unbuttoned. The troop/team has the choice of wearing the neckerchief over the turned-under collar or under the open collar."

 

I hate to quote actual BSA references as that appears to be an anathema to some, but if you are asking about something "official". I have a hard time answering without an official reference.

 

personally, I wear my neckerchief over my collar which is not turned down (I'm a rebel and I'm no good, I'm a rebel and I never ever do what I should) because the reason the neckerchief was invented to keep dust off the neck and from seeping down the collar.

 

 

 

PS, I am constantly amazed the most iconic part of theuniform, the world wide recognized symbol of scouting, the one thing that screams scouting, the neckerchief is optional in the BSA(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Kahuna]

I can confirm what DWS says. We had both collarless short sleeve shirts and collared long sleeve. If you wore the collar you turned in inside and put the necker on over it. Adults in those days (and JASMs in our troop) wore neckties with a collared shirt or there was a short sleeve shirt you could wear open at the neck.

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

I stand corrected, thanks for the reference OGE.

[MikeS]

Old Grey Eagle and all,

 

Yep - sounds like the same reference my son found. I too wear it over the collar (not turned in) and, (GASP), the collar is buttoned (BLASPHAMY!!! I know, I know).

 

In any event, I have been told it was the "tradition" (I suspect perhaps the troop's tradition adopted before my arrival) to wear it over the collar (not turned in) - I think, unless you have a really long neckerchief, it looks very unkempt and not very neat, but...who am I to break the tradition? Oh yeah, I'm the SM, time for a review at the next Committeee Meeting I think some of the kids in the troop wear it under the collar anyway - about half and half.

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Glad another unit wears neckers, hopefully you will enjoy the larger ones that national supply has said will be coming out soon.

 

Yep you tuck in the collar with the necker over it. Don't like the uner the collar option, esp. with the current lot of small neckers, as it looks funny.

 

As for buttoning the top button, With the "Elvis" collars of the new shirts, I find it challenging to tuck the collar in and keep it looking nice. I've found that if you do button thetop button A) the neck size is off so it is loose around the neck and B) the necker looks better.

 

 

[Big Sky]

When I started Cubs in '82 I was told to tuck my collar under with the necker. I have worn it that way ever since and will continue to wear it that way. I think it looks dorky with it tucked under the collar and the nerckercheifs are not big enought to wear over the collar unless it is tucked in. Also take into account that when scouting started, shirts did not have built in collars, they were band collars and had seperate detachable collars to wear with neckties. Childeren did not wear the seperate collars and neither did outdoorsman. Also bandanas of the time were much larger like 36"x36" and thus could keep the dirt and grime out of the shirt and collar area. Today's neckercheifs are symbolic and totally useless for anything else. I prefer the silk "wild rags" sold in western stores over the "official neckercheif". I do however like the centennial necker because of it's larger size. I also wear the campaing hat exclusively. I'm a old school Scouter and I'm only 34.(This message has been edited by Big Sky)

[Eagle92]

Big Sky,

 

If you like the centennial necker, and get them now b/c National is out of them, then you'll like the fact that national is comng out with the larger sizes next year. At least according to their Facebook postings.

[Stosh]

As long as the boy wears a necker, he's good to go. Some go over, some under, and it's a larger necker (custom made) so it doesn't matter. My SPL and ASPL wear a different colored necker so I can spot them quickly, and I wear my Wood Badge necker or tie.

 

Our boys are taught that the necker is a tool to be used in place of a towel on campouts and for First Aid.

 

Some are rolled, some are folded, some are gathered, but they all wear them and that in and of itself a step ahead of a lot of troops.

 

One patrol recently started wearing them all the same - over the collar so maybe in time the "tradition" of uniformity will catch on.

 

I still have 2 hold outs that do not wear BSA belts, but maybe that will change as well, too.

 

Stosh

[sherminator505]

I'd still like to see the 4th corner make a comeback.

[Big Sky]

I have purchased the Centennial necker already and I was going to get one for my boy but I guess I'll give him mine. I like Stosh's idea of going with the bigger sizes and actually be willing to use them as they were meant to be used. In the field I still wear my silk 3'square bandana, good for towel, snot rag, head wrap, arm sling, tourniquet, etc........

[MikeS]

Yeah, I have some of different sizes and have to say, I much prefer the larger ones - again, thinking of one of the things it's meant to be used for, i.e. a tool (whether for first Aid or otherwise).

 

In our Troop we use the Kente cloth neckers and in keeping somewhat with tradition of Kente cloth, the necker must be earned by doing ten (10) hours of community service.

 

I do have a necker from my ancestral homeland of Poland - I thought for sure it would be a larger "older style" necker, but was a little shocked to find out when I got it that it's actually a little smaller than many "standard" neckers here. I would have thought the European version was more in line with our older styles - guess not!

 

BTW - the problem with the one from Poland is that it is, as you might expect, half white and half red, so many people thought it was some sort of OA necker

 

 

 

[Stosh]

My high level scouts wear the Meyer's Flag for a necker. It's the white square flag with the red smaller square in the middle, used for single flag signaling.

 

I as well prefer the 4 corner necker, it is far more practical than the triangle. The only drawback on the 4 corner necker is the double material make them quite warm in the summer months. I notice the boys wear them tight in the winter and wear them looser in the summer. I don't have a problem with that.

 

Stosh