Uniforming at a BOR

[eaglescout1996]

I could see that, a young man with uniform worn from years of use...but whatever happened to the appropriateness of the situation? I'm not saying that the young man needs to be spit and polished when he stands in front of the man, but shouldn't we be preparing these young men with life skills? The EBOR is probably the biggest "interview" any of those young men will have faced to that point. If they don't have a reasonable expectation on what is appropriate, what happens when they have a college interview, one with a Senator's staff for that nomination to West Point, or their first job.

 

[GernBlansten]

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting, 'WOW . . . What a ride!' "

 

Heard at an ECOH by a scout who clearly lived on the edge of adventure.

 

Tis it better to show up at your final BSA judgement in a pristine vessel, showing the care you have taken to preserve its beauty, or to skid in sideways, showing the experiences of your journey, standing up momentarily to dust yourself off.

 

Are we preparing our young men to be ready for college admission interviews or life's greater challenges?

 

[John-in-KC]

Gern,

 

The next big hurdle for many of these young men is the college admissions process. Faculty members do not have to bend over backwards in most cases.

 

Case in point:

EagleSon went to a university scholarship day. He's not the best there ever was in his field, nor is he the worst. We got there on time, he'd had a good nights sleep, he had a game plan, and he did well.

 

Another young man frankly was far, far better in technical qualifications over EagleSon. Ok, here's the BUT! ... he was slovenly dressed, and he hadn't taken care that he came to the day appearing... shall we say... sanitary.

 

He wasn't on campus some months later. When I asked "where is rrr, he was darn good??" the frank answer was "We did not offer him one thin dime; what's more, we alterted several other schools he was applying to."

 

I'm not advocating Parlour Scouts either, but the whole of the Scout Law applies. Thrifty can be met by buying an experienced uniform. Clean absolutely should be met. Thrifty can also be met by wearing other appropriate clothes (coat and tie being one example).

[mbrownkc7]

I still get a kick out of the uniform discussions. I didn't much like wearing the "complete" uniform when I was a kid and my boys don't now.

 

I just read the requirements for the rank of Eagle and Life for the fun of it and I can't find where is tells me how a boy should dress.

 

Based on this discussion and many others, I was expecting to see "Present yourself properly uniformed for a board of review". But I don't see this.

 

Yes I prefer to see boys in thier uniforms. I am not a stickler for pants but a shirt, scarf, and sash are very nice and considered a full uniform by me for a bor.

 

I am with some of the other posters here. This is not an interview for me. I am here to review the boys work and discuss with him what he learned, positive and negative. I like to talk about the experiences he is having in both scouts and his personal life.

 

About the interview comments. I have interviewed many people over the years and I have never hired a person because they were the best dressed of all the applicants. I always hired the most qualified applicant and I never did a back ground check on their wardrobe.

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Our district tells the Scouts to show up for the EBOR in full uniform. All of our Scouts have seemed to think this was a reasonable requirement, although most of them do not normally wear the pants in our troop. I'm ok with this. It's not a big deal.

[BrentAllen]

mbrown,

Sorry you missed it - turn to page 12 & 13. Gern, you might want to read it as well.

 

"Wear full uniform for all ceremonial and indoor activities, such as troop meetings, courts of honor, and most other indoor functions. The uniform should also be worn during special outdoor occasions, such as Scout shows, flag ceremonies, and special times at summer camp.

For outdoor activities, Scouts may wear troop or camp T-shirts with the Scout pants or shorts, or other appropriate attire."

 

No need to trash his official uniform shirt on a high adventure trip - wear a troop T-shirt or the BSA Action shirt.

[Eagle92]

I don't think anyone would call me a "Parlor Scout" having done 3 fifty milers, worked summer cmap for 6 summers, being extremely active in the OA (Love wearing cammie pants and old T-shirts and takign care of MY camp) yada, yada, yada. But I do beleive there is a time and a place for a full, complete uniform. COHs is one time. BORS is another.

 

PLCs run the troop and can set up the standards they want seen at meetings and what not. So if they want Jeans and a t-shirt for meetings, that's there perogative. If they want complete uniforms, that's their perogative.

 

BUT for the special events they need a full complete uniform. If they are goign on a trip, yep wear the compelte uniform, you'll be surpised at the comments you get.

 

One example was as a scout, the Folks at my church knew I was a scout from seeing me in my uniform a few times at services. Well there was a medical emergency, and guess who got asked to handle it, Me. Why? b/c they saw me in my uniform and remembered I was a scout.

 

2 weeks ago I was in a grocery after a RU in uniform. Guess what i had so many people coming up to me athanking me for working witht he youth, nice to knwo BSA still exists,etc.

 

encourage proper uniforming and wear a full uniform with pride.

[Beavah]

New handbook changes that a bit:

 

"Proudly wear your uniform to troop meetings, ceremonies such as courts of honor, and most other indoor functions. When you're headed outdoors, you can pull on a T-shirt with Scout pants or shorts, or wear other clothing that is right for the events of the day."

 

And that's only in a sidebar, not da main text. Book quotin' is better left to preachers and the Bible anyways.

 

I like to see kids in full uniform at BOR's. I encourage it. But I care a lot more about seein' the kid than I do the clothes. The boy's responses and attitude overcome or reinforce his clothing impression just fine, and usually in a matter of seconds. Seen plenty of fully uniformed boys who didn't demonstrate the attitude or values of an Eagle Scout. Seen plenty of un-uniformed boys who did. If it's an interview, I hire the person, not the wardrobe.

 

Maybe we should add a requirement that all BORs occur outdoors. Those were my most fun and memorable anyways. I reckon it would bring a swift end to the fist-like grip of da parlor scouters.

 

[added]

I think we also have to remember that we would be surprised by the comments the kids get from other kids about the uniform. And they're not goin' to be the same as the comments adults give adults that Eagle92 reported.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[BrentAllen]

mbrown,

You might want to also check the Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures booklet. In case you don't have it, I'll quote it:

 

Boards of Review

 

The Scout should be neat in his appearance and his uniform should be as correct as possible, with the badges worn properly.

 

pg. 30

 

Parlor Scouts? Anyone who calls an active Scout (or Scouter) a "Parlor Scout" because he takes pride in wearing his uniform correctly has no business being in the program.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[skeptic]

"added]

I think we also have to remember that we would be surprised by the comments the kids get from other kids about the uniform. And they're not goin' to be the same as the comments adults give adults that Eagle92 reported."

 

Beavah; Another opportunity for personal growth. Overcoming peer pressure is something we should be trying to help scouts with. In some respects, wearing a uniform with pride, even in front of peers, is an act of bravery. It generally becomes less of a problem as a scout matures, in my observation. And, there is more respect for scouting in the youth than we might believe. Like anything else in our society, we tend to equate the foolishness of a few with the attitude of the many. A great example of this was brought to me by one of my past Eagle scouts in his senior year in high school. After his name appeared in the paper, along with his photo, he told me that he was approached by numerous classmates congratulating him, and discovered that quite a few mentioned they were scouts, or even Eagles. On the other hand, it obviously was not something they made well known. Middle school and the first couple years of high school seems to be where most of the peer issues occur; and it is also the period when the highest loss of scouts occurs.

 

Just some observations from my own experience.

[OldGreyEagle]

There is no requirement that a scout own a scout uniform, whether he is a tenderfoot or sitting for an Eagle BOR. Just a question, you turn down an Eagle Candidate because he was not in uniform, he is not slovenly, that comes next, but well dresed, just not in uniform. He appeals. What is your defense? That he wasnt in uniform and you wanted him to be? That's all you got?

 

Now, that doesnt mean if an Eagle candiate were to present not in uniform there would be questions about, and what the uniform meant and how the uniform is used and depending on the answers, well, it depends on the answers.

 

I see the whole the Eagle candidate must be wearing a full and complete uniform or he doesnt stand a chance to pass as just another adult obstacle fueled by small minded people who lack control over their lives and just have to show somebody that they have power, it may just be here in this Eagle board of review, but by God, its the only power I have and I shall wield it

 

Then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. When did appearance trump content of charactor?

[bacchus]

I like to see the scouts in full uniform and as an adult leader I point out what's wrong with it. Maybe I'm preparing them for life, or maybe just the next BOR/EBOR. Whatever the case, next time they go in to see 3 adults who are dressed in their Class A uniforms, they will be dressed likewise, with all pockets buttoned.

 

As to denying BOR or EBOR. I don't think we should do it if they have met the requirements. Even a slouch who has performed all the requirements for rank deserves the rank without an additional test or requirement by the board - unless of course the board believes the scout is so bad off it shows lack of scout spirit.

[BrentAllen]

Yep, shame on any of us for suggesting we should hold Eagle candidates up to any kind of standard. Sure, we are a uniformed organization and all, but that doesn't matter. They are all going to pass anyway, so let's just do away with the whole charade. What's the point? Right, OGE?

[OldGreyEagle]

SO appearance is more important, who knew?

[BrentAllen]

No, apparently appearance doesn't matter at all.

 

BTW, that small-minded 4-bead, 30+ year Scoutmaster (50+ years total) that lacks control over his personal life wouldn't have to worry about an appeal - he just wouldn't let the EBOR begin if the Scout wasn't in uniform.