Wolf Scout 2nd year w/o uniform

[JessieLG]

My husband is a second year Den Leader for our son's Wolf den. We have a boy who is now entering his second year with us and still doesn't have a uniform, nor does he have a book (didn't last year either).

 

Has anyone dealt with a scout who doesn't have a uniform? How would you address this? Knowing the family, its not a situation where money is the issue, I believe the priorities are just not straight.

 

Thanks in advance!

[trainerlady]

I had a couple of boys over my 3 years of Cubs to date in this situation. One was a family that couldn't afford the stuff (had twins in the den, and unemployed Dad)and one whose parents refused to buy the stuff.

 

For the family with low funds we hooked them up with used shirts and pants from the Pack closet and the school's uniform closet. I had the boys split a book and the parents record the info for one boy in blue and for the other boy in red. The pack supplied neckers too, boys made a slide at a den meeting.

 

The other boy's parents who could afford it(and then some) were told point blank that Cubs/Boy Scouts is a uniformed organization and as such the uniforms were required as were the necessary books for the program. They were asked if they'd buy a hockey or football uniform if their son played on those teams. They were offered the services of a "personal shopper" (a Scout store employee and den leader). In the end they left the Pack - "Scouting wasn't for them."

 

They were also the drop and run parents, had to get to coffee with friends, yoga class, the store, etc. No involvement in the den/pack. No fundraising, didn't pay dues, no work done at home, skipped the meeting when they were supposed to bring snack. You get the picture. It was too bad the kid was a good kid that wanted to be there. But the parents could have cared less. Were a cheap, safe, wholesome babysitting service. They lasted 3 months.

[eghiglie]

Very sad that this occurs, there are some people who reject regimentation yet belong to organized groups. In a way they draw attention to themselves by being dressed differently.

 

With out the book advancement will be really hard.

 

There is also the memories that the book brings. My son just found his Wolf, Bear and Webelos books and as he examined the pages and initials he recalled fond memories of his cubbie days (this was not that long ago).

 

As he is getting ready for his Eagle SMC and BoR I'm sure his boy scout book will bring him the same joy in a few years.

 

[JessieLG]

Thank you so much for the replies!

 

I was so happy to find this site last night (after our first Den meeting) as I'm realizing some of these situations unfortunately seem to be "par for the course."

 

The past year has been frustrating: Asst. Den Leader who consistantly dropped the ball and blamed others, parents who didn't help out as they were "too busy" (as if we are not) to volunteer, no uniform/book boy, parents who came but talked on cell phones/texted during the meeting while their child was not behaving, etc.

 

Its very frustrating but I try to remember we are doing this for our son and want all of the boys to have good memories and learn good life lessons.

 

Again, thanks so much!!!

 

Happy Scouting!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

You can't set other people's priorities for them. If you have a family that just doesn't like uniforming, or sees the uniform as an unwise use of their money (and it doesn't matter if they're rolling in dough, some people aren't going to part with their cash for something that they don't see as a good value), you can either gently nudge them or you can expect to lose them.

 

I think if it were me, I'd push hard on the book. The kids really need that, and this becomes more true as they move up in rank. Without the book the boy is at a serious disadvantage.

 

Without the uniform, he can still be a cub scout and gain plenty from the program. Lack of uniform is not going to keep him from advancing.

 

Once you get the book issue resolved, maybe you can encourage the family to at least consider the shirt. Once they get that, you can start working on them for the necker, the hat, the slide, the belt (for belt loops of course), the pants, the socks bit by bit.

 

 

[Eagle92]

How can a cub scout advance if there is no book that has been signed off byt he parents, and recorded by the DL? I ahte to say it but when Chuck Cub Scout sees his freinds getting advancement, and he is not, then he may ask his parents for a book so he can get advancement.

 

As for the uniform, I would encourage everyone to get the uniform and wear it with pride. For those who cannot afford a new uniform, and I was that CS and BS growing up, you can always get expereinced uniforms through unit closets, thrift stores, and ebay.

 

As for the folks who can afford it and don't care, try talkign to them over a cup of coffee. Let them know that it IS important, and that go over allthe stuff abotu uniforms in the various BSA publications. Also if your unit participates in community functions like parades and what not, stress that not being in uniform WILL draw attention, and will make the cub feel uncomfortable.

[JessieLG]

You all have such great information/advice, thanks again!

 

It is a situation where the parents just "don't care" about it I believe.

 

He was in our Tiger den last year (didn't earn the Tiger)and is now in our Wolf den.

 

His mom seemed upset last night when we passed out belt loops that were earned over the summer and he didn't have any. When she asked about it my husband asked if she updated Scout Track (we use Scout Track and the families are responsible for updating) like was asked of all the parents twice before the meeting. She said she didn't know how to do it...blah blah blah, same story as last year. It is frustrating!

 

Again, thank you all so much for the info. Looks like we'll be having a talk about the importance of uniforms/books and parental involvement.

 

 

[ManyHats]

I use the bead jar method at each meeting. A bead goes in the jar for each scout attending, one for wearing uniform, one for book etc. Peer pressure to fill the jar will help the scout want to come in uniform and have his book. If the scout pressures the parent, then maybe you don't have to approach the parents your self.

[CalicoPenn]

Here's how I would handle this - I would find the passages in the Cub Scout/BSA literature that state a uniform is required and show it to the parents.

 

That's how I would handle it, if there were any such passages. I can save myself a lot of time though, because I know there are no such passages in BSA literature. Yes, one of the methods of Cub Scouting is the Uniform - but the BSA doesn't actually require that a Cub Scout have a uniform - it certainly recommends it, but it doesn't require it. The methods are tools to help achieve the purposes of Cub Scouting - in the BSA's eyes, as long as the purposes are achieved, it's all good. There really isn't anyhing in any of the purposes of Cub Scouting that requires a uniform to achieve - the uniform can help, but it's not going to prevent the achievement of any of the purposes if one isn't worn.

 

Now I'm not suggesting that the issue of the uniform be dropped - I just wouldn't push it (the young lad who is no longer involved because the parents pulled him from the program rather than buy a uniform will quite possibly have as his main memory of Cub Scouts as the "group that threw him out because he didn't have a uniform" - what are the chances his kids will become Scouts when he has a family?). I would just be a bit more gentle - peer pressure will accomplish what you won't be able to - in time, he's going to start asking his parents why he can't have a uniform when all his friends have one.

 

And don't assume by outward appearances that the family has plenty of money. I live in the suburbs of Chicago - I'm watching as folks around me, who by all outward appearances had plenty of money, are losing their homes and cars. Too many people have more credit than money and they may be driving a fancy car or SUV and live in a nice looking home, but could be eating rice and beans or macaroni and cheese behind closed doors. Not everyone is comfortable talking to people about their financial/home situation.

 

Does the Pack have a uniform closet? Then just give the lad a shirt - without any assumptions behind it.

 

Push for the book though - and if Mom doesn't know how to update Scout Track, then help her update Scout Track - despite the proliferation of computers, not everyone is computer literate, and not everyone has a computer at home.

 

 

[ChaiAdventure]

Jessie

 

I think I am most impressed when you said that the boy did not earn his Tiger badge. There are so many boys who just earn it by "showing up" that it is truly refreshing to see that you upheld the standard.

 

We use scout track as well and it does become an issue with some of our Den Leaders. I had our advancement chair go strictly by scout track reports and not random emails or conversations and eventually, it worked.

 

As for the parents who don't care...they fall into two basic categories from what I see. One is that they just don't care, and the other is that they just don't understand the program. If it is the latter, easy fix. If it is the former, don't expect the boy around for much longer. Wolf and Bear require parent-boy activities and that will get frustrating for parents that are too busy to work with their boys.

 

In either case, my advice would be to spend 90% of your effort on the boys and parents who care, and 10% on the others. Unfortunately, it usually works the other way.

[SSScout]

A couple of things to try and some personal stories.

 

I had a Cub in our Den that wore his uniform shirt unbuttoned. His mom said he "just didn't like buttons". One day, before the Pack meeting, while his mom watched, I knelt down by him and said to him, "gee, Frank, let me help you with your shirt. I know these buttons can be a hassle" and I started buttoning up his shirt. He did not protest, let me button everything up and then tucked his shirt in. He came to meetings all buttoned up after that. Never did get his neckerchief on, tho.

 

Many Scout groups around the world do not use a "full" uniform like we do. Economics, style, etc. all come in to play. But they all have one thing in common: the neckerchief. Along with your conversations with the parents, ask for their cooperation on this: You might make a big deal out of a special Den Tshirt and the neckerchief.ONLY. If all the boys do it, maybe the odd boy out will pick up on it. Maybe the Denleader can do what mom can't: help the boy to want to wear a uniform.

 

And don't forget to KiSMiF...

 

My button boy stayed in Scouts up to Webelos, then dropped.

[sherminator505]

"I would find the passages in the Cub Scout/BSA literature that state a uniform is required and show it to the parents."

 

I don't think you'll find any such passage. While it is the only place to wear Cub Scout insignia (thus making it a really good idea), I don't recall a single instance where the literature says that a Cub Scout is required to wear the uniform.

 

Personally, I find the absence of a book to be more troubling. It makes me wonder if the boy and/or parents are really into this. I hope that this aspect changes; otherwise, I wouldn't expect the boy to stick around very long.

[Lisabob]

I think that was actually Calico's point, sherm.

 

The uniform is not a required element. Boys can be scouts, whether they own the uniform or not. This is not to say the uniform is unimportant, but there's a lot of difference between "important" and "mandatory."

 

Parents who don't care. Those were the folks I really had a hard time with when I was a cub leader. But I also learned that a lot of them who seemed not to care, actually just had a lot else going on in their lives. And let's face it, most families with no prior scouting experience do not immediately buy in to all the hoopla of scouting. It takes some time for people to get enmeshed in the culture of scouting (including the uniform). We can become incensed about this and drive a lot of folks away, or we can accept this and work away at this attitude a little bit at a time.

 

Lastly, I want to ask you to hold off on your judgment of the family's motives and finances. I've met plenty of families, like Calico describes, who are keeping up outward appearances of prosperity when in reality, they're struggling mightily. On the flip side, you also don't really know what a boy or a family is gaining from scouting, or how they might express appreciation in the future. As cub leaders of the pack that drew from the "poor" school in town (high percentage of free/reduced lunches and gov't subsidized housing), we had a family join who were quite wealthy. The father was often out of town on business and the boys seldom showed up to events, but when they did, they always had fun. Also, the parents wanted to know the financial details of the pack - exactly how were dues used, what did fundraising pay for, etc., in detail, which was kind of a pain in the neck at times.

 

We couldn't figure them out. Neither boy earned his rank. They quit after a year due to schedule conflicts. But shortly after they quit, they gave the pack a large check to buy a new pinewood derby track and electronic timing device (both desperately needed). With the donation came a note thanking us because Dad had fond memories from his youth of his time as a cub scout, and his sons had seldom enjoyed the experience of just being pals and equals with other children, regardless of socio-economic status. Cub scouts gave them that opportunity and they had fun. Who knows, maybe down the road, those kids will put their own children in scouts too, or maybe give generously to their community FOS campaigns.

 

 

[SctDad]

We had our first meeting with our new parents and Cubs last night. Yes the concern about the uniform did come up. I told the parents that asked, I would like them to make sure that the boy was going to enjoy scouting and wanted to stay in before investing in a uniform. Because it is a cost and I do not want the parents to have to buy one and two days later drop out.

 

One rule that we have put in place with approval from our committee. If a Cub Scout is going to partcipate in a parade with the pack, then he must have the uniform to wear. Minimum Shirt, Necker & Slide and patches attached, and the CS Belt for beltloops and stuff. If the parents are unable to get the pants right away, our School's uniform policy has the boys wearing Navy Blue pants. I do recommend the scout pants, but if the navy blue ones are all they can get for the time being then that is OK with us.(And yes the CO knows about it. We are chartered by the American legion so they had no issues with it)

 

Some have hats some don't. We recommend them. We also have Pack activity t-shirts, swear shirts and stuff.

 

As for the issue with the book. I have a Webelos I that is in his 3rd year with us and still has not earned anything above his Bobcat. BUT he comes to the meetings and enjoys himself every time. I guess that is the most important part.

 

As for what you can do. Offer to help them find one that they can borrow from a uniform closet. CHeck with the salvation Army. The ones around here will give you all the uniforms that they have for free.

[shortridge]

The shirt and necker are all that are really necessary for the Cubs. I never owned a pair of pants or shorts until I got into Boy Scouts. And the Cubs that had hats usually lost them with regularity.

 

To encourage neckerchief use, making a slide is a great den activity!

 

Also, where can I get a swear shirt?? That could come in handy from time to time.