Adults wearing uniforms to boost ego?

[BrentAllen]

Interesting.

 

I always looked at our military as heros, especially those wearing the Purple Heart or MOH. I guess you see them as egotists, as well. They certainly don't need to wear those medals to do their job.

[GernBlansten]

Please don't compare a purple heart to a BSA knot. Do you see ego in trying to do that? I do.

 

And yes, they don't wear them to do their job.

[prairie]

Maybe,

just maybe,

Ego,

in small doses,

is not a bad thing.

[BrentAllen]

No, I don't see ego in what I said. I wasn't equating the two. If you don't like that, how about a marksmanship award? Or a Marine wearing his Eagle medal on his dress blues? Egotists?(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[GernBlansten]

What other motivation would it be Brent?

[Gunny2862]

Question,

 

Brent,

Is there a reference allowing a Marine to wear an Eagle Scout medal on a USMC uniform?

If so, do you have it?

 

After a full career I have not once seen this done, just wondering if it was in fact allowed...

[Eagle92]

I don't beleive anyone is comparing BSA knots to military ribbons, we all knwo which ones mean more. However the BSA knots are based upon military ribbons.

 

If you look at photos of BP, he wore his military ribbons from the Imperial Army. Also if memory serves, the BSA issued ribbons similar to military ribbons to recognize youth and volunteers for their service and recognitions, just as the military does. BSA also allowed miltary service ribbons to be worn. However sometime in the 1940s the BSA changed from ribbons to knots, but still allowed the military service ribbons until the 1950s.

 

Just as BSA knots do not mean a person is perfect, so too with the sservice member waering military ribbons. Col. Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, USMC (Ret.), a Medal of Honor recipient, once said "Show me a hero, and I'll show you a bum."

 

That said, whether you have rows of knots, or no knots at all, LET YOUR ACTIONS WITH AND FOR THE YOUTH SPEAK FOR YOU!

(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[sherminator505]

Didn't the BSA create knots after WWII to clear up this confusion, and to keep this sort of mixing from taking place?

[Dimemaker]

I wear my Eagle, Aol and my religious knot. Yup raving Ego right there.

 

I wear it because once an Eagle always an eagle. It also helps as a remminder to myself to the ideals it embodies.

I think many of the knots do that.

 

I hate to put out a blanket assumtions, but don't the naysayers just come off as a bit envious or sound like they get intimidated by people with embroidery on their shirt? ( I'm sure there are a few bad apples out there but they are in the minority).

 

This just smacks of people not getting the program. It's not what's on OTHER peoples shirts.

Get off the keeping up with the Jones mentality.

 

It's knot (pun) about what's on your shirt people either. It's what's in your heart and what your willing to do to help the boys and make this a better program. Period.

 

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Trying to answer my own question, if anyone has a better source please post, thanks.

 

From: http://clipart.usscouts.org/ScoutDoc/Scouts-L/_Raw_Undigested_Material_2/EAGLEMED_txt.txt

 

the relevant portion:

Thanks to Secretary of the Army Togo West, Jr. and SGM Daniel Coberly, there

are some studies circulating around the Pentagon as of 1995 and early 1996,

which would establish a ribbon for holders of the Eagle Scout Badge, the

Girl Scouting Gold Award, and other similar national-level awards. Until

that is approved within the Army (and it's the only service I am aware of

that has even considered this), Scouts and Scouters may NOT wear the Eagle

Scout Badge on their uniforms with TWO notable exceptions:

 

The first one covers the actual presentation of the award (and this goes for

any other BSA or other program's awards as well) to members of the military.

The award may be presented/pinned/attached to the military unifom during

appropriate ceremonies and be worn during the duration of the ceremony and

any reception or followup ceremonies. This covers members of the military,

for instance, who receive service awards or personal achievement awards from

national organizations. Afterwards, the award may no longer be worn in

connection with the military uniform.

 

The second exception covers members of the military whom are detailed or

attached to civilian organizations during a national or regional event

(regional is defined to include state or part of a state, which for BSA and

GSUSA folks, would encompass a Council or Service Area). They are

permitted to wear ONE such civilian identification, recognition or

service-type award as long as wearing such award or identification does not

interfere with wearing military uniforms, accessories (like a protective

mask or a weapon), or which would tend to cast a negative light upon the

military service or the program they are being detailed to work or provide

services for. This covers, for instance, military personnel working as part

of a national meeting of the Reserve Officers Association or the Assocation

of the United States Army, for instance, as well as those that work at the

National Scout Jamboree or a Girl Scout Wider Adventure.

 

Thanks in advance if anyone can provide amplification...

 

[Eagle92]

Sherm,

Correct the switch from BSA ribbons to knots was around 1948 I believe. But if memory serves you could wear both Service service ribbons and BSA knots a little longer. We had a crusty old MGySgt in a vintage uniform with both knots and service ribbons in my old council. He wore that uniform only on special occasions: council banquet, and Cathlic Committe on Scouting mass with the archbishop.

 

Great guy, and while he wore a lot of swank on his uniform, he was a scout for over 60 years, he let his actions speak. Every first year camper at summer camp for over 15 years knew him, and looked up to him as a role model and mentor. He was a great mentor to me and many others. RIP "Sarge."

[BrentAllen]

Gunny,

Upon further investigation, they can't.

 

When I was CM, we always had a Marine visit us for our December Pack meeting, to take receipt of our Toys for Tots collection. On at least one occasion, the Marine was also an Eagle Scout (probably in 2004). We asked the Marine to talk about the significance of the parts of his uniform, and the importance of uniforming. The Eagle Scout Marine was wearing his Eagle medal, and said it was authorized. He said it was the only civilian medal authorized for wear on the Marine uniform. He also mentioned Eagle Scouts can enlist and receive a higher paygrade status (which is true). I had no reason to question it at the time.

 

I just reviewed the USMC uniform regulations http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mcub/library/MCUR/URTOC.htm#URCH5 and called the awards branch to verify - the answer is no. I guess we had a misinformed Marine.

[SMT224]

While we cannot compare the heroics of a Purple Heart to that symbolized by a Scouter knot, to me a Scouter that shows up to Troop meetings year after year, goes on camping trips all through the year, and guides boys from the crossover to Eagle is a hero. It may not be a dramatic as a military hero, but it a hero that sticks with it through all the national, council, and district bs, handles the helicopter parents, and the out of control boys... and then come back and does it again.

 

And if, during those years, a few awards were presented, why not wear them? They were earned many times over. They are well deserved and deserve respect. They certainly have mine.

 

On the other hand, I do feel conflicted when I see that some businessman (who was never a Scout) is presented with an award at the council or national level because of a monetary donation. Yes, I understand we need the money, and we do appreciate the donation, but isn't there another way to recognize such a contribution?

 

[BrentAllen]

Gunny,

Just saw your other post - I wonder if working for Toys for Tots would have allowed the Marine to wear his Eagle. He was in dress blues. No sword, however.

[sherminator505]

The knot I understand the least is the NESA Life Member knot. Of all the knots out there, this one seems to be the most egregious "gimme."