"Made in China"

[eagle90]

Going along with another thread about things being made in China, I don't have a big problem with that, BUT....

 

We just returned from Summer Camp and I purchased 112 merit badges and 22 progress awards from the Scout Shop, and every last one of them has a little gold sticker on the back saying "Made in China". WHY?? Must we publicize it so blatently? And whats the cost of that sticker? I don't remember seeing that sticker on every merit badge before.

 

Not a big problem, but just a pain in the ........

[boomerscout]

the sticker is required by law. all imports are supposed to be marked with country of origin. this used to apply to just manufactured goods, but now includes produce

[theysawyoucomin']

The sticker, which is also made in Communist China, cost about 1 cent the Merit badge probably costs 20 cents. Both are made by people making $2.50 each week and they live good; In a barracks style dorm and they send money home.

 

A company I know sub-contracts with a cast iron foundry there. The workers pour molten cast iron while wearing sandals and a regular holey shirt. The roof has a huge hole in it. No safety gear at all.

 

I think the country of origin law has been around since the 1920's.

[BadenP]

uz2

I agree and have seen the kind of conditions you are talking about, Made in China on a BSA uniform or badge is an insult to the founding principles of what our organization stands for.

This manuever by Mazzuca and his cronies is just another method he is using to bring in more money into National at the expense of the boys parents and scouters to pay more money for an inferior product that has already shown does not hold up to standard outdoor activities. I am afraid that this is just the beginning, next all the books will be printed in China as well. Who knows maybe the next step will be a small flag of China embroidered on every uniform piece.

[DeanRx]

While I tend to agree... anyone know of a manufacturer in the US that is capable of providing the lot quantities needed for bulk merit badge purchases that BSA makes for the scout shops? I don't, but I'm not in that line of business.

 

We do order specialized patches for unit activies from a local patch maker, but they run $3 plus per patch. With 3 to 5 colors per merit badge, I would guess even at large quantity they would charge $1.50 plus for them (assuming a stateside maker could even handle the lot sizes).

 

Anyone want to pay $3 to $4 + per merit badge? Didn't think so. That's assuming we could find a maker to make them in the U.S.A.

 

I don't like it either, but its not like the car you drive the scouts in, the food you feed them, or even the camping gear you use on a regular basis was likely made inside the 50 states. Its one of the main reasons our country is in the pickle we find ourselves in now, but the BSA national is just doing what every other corporate buyer does to maximize the bottom line. They buy from the cheapest supplier that can meet their volume needs.

 

If they're anything like every other industry, they probably don't even use the same supplier everytime. Best way to drive cost down is to get two or more manufactuers to try and outbid each other for the work. Then once you use one, you go back to the other in 6 months and see if they'll undercut by 3% of what you're paying. Once the contract is up, you jump ship to the new supplier and play the game with supplier #1 in the next business quarter. Happens everyday, everwhere, in every country on the globe.

 

Don't get mad at China (or the BSA) just because the Chinese government is better at playing the capitalism game than the country that invented it. Now, if you want to talk fair trade with regards to wages, working conditions, environmental impact, insurance, workers comp, etc... that's a seperate topic best reserved for the "politics" boards...

[Eamonn]

I don't have any real problem with where stuff comes from or where it is made.

I do feel that what ever it is we are buying should be the quality that is required or specified.

The responsibility for this and checking this is the responsibility of who ever is buying it and selling it at every step along the line.

It's great that we can buy a cheap whatever but if it fails to do what it was intended to do, then it's no longer a saving.

If it doesn't meet what the specs are, then again it isn't what we paid for.

I do think we have a responsibility to ensure that the things we buy are made or manufactured in safe and humane working conditions.

Talking with my younger sister who is is a Partner and Head of law firm's Greater China Employment and Human Resources practice. She was tasked with ensuring that the Chinese could work within a mission statement of a large American oil company. The American company were willing to invest several billion dollars (US) in China.

When she looked into the employment practices of many of the secondary suppliers, she found that they were unable to operate with the guidelines of the mission statement.

The end result was that the Americans pulled out.

I would hate to think that our Boy Scouts were wearing patches that were made by young children in China working is really terrible conditions and would gladly pay the extra cost to ensure that this wasn't happening.

I'm not saying that this is the case.

I just hope that someone, somewhere has checked it out.

Eamonn.

 

[BadenP]

Dean

 

Interesting points but you are very very wrong when you state the conditions that the goods are produced in are a seperate topic. That is not true as the two are very much inter-related, how can the BSA who says they take the moral and ethical highground, based on the scout oath and law, do business with companies that so flagrantly ignore working conditions and exploit child as well as adult labor to a point of slave labor. As I said before I have been to China and witnessed these things firsthand and I swear that if you went and saw for yourself the conditions of the factories, including the ones producing BSA uniforms, you would feel sick and embarassed when you put on that uniform. In my home town we have gotten almost all the troops and packs to boycott the new uniform until the BSA finds a new manufacturer. We have all signed a petition, adults and youth and sent it directly to Mazzuca, including pictures I took in China so he will not have the excuse that he just did not know.

 

As far as manufacturers in the US there are at least six on the west coast alone I now about more than capable of producing all the uniforms the BSA needs, and much better quality. So you see Mazzucca really has no excuses, the only motivation left is greed. Is that what we want the BSA to be noted for in the rest of the world?

[Eamonn]

I really have no idea what it costs to make a uniform.

One reason I kept on hearing in the past, for the uniform costing as much as it did, was because it was union made in the USA.

Again I don't know if this was the truth or just something that just sounded good?

I do understand that we are in a Global economy.

Maybe the guys in China are upset about buying American rice?

Still with unemployment as high as it is here in the USA, I would think that if there was a way of doing things here at home, without having costs go through the roof? We'd be happy to go for it. -Even if the cost was slightly higher.

Ea.

[BadenP]

Thats the whole point Eamonn, there are currently in the USA dozens of garment producers that could produce a better quality uniform, and with the BSA quantity needed at a competitive price with the Chinese, only slightly higher to cover the better quality cloth and construction. Mazzucas motive is purely dollars, since BSA has the total monopoly on the uniform supply he gets the cheapest quality at the cheapest price he can, yet National still is raising their price to us, and we are forced to take it in the wallet like good little scouts. It is time for the parents and volunteers to tell National that their current uniform supply policy is simply not acceptable, instead of acting like a bunch of placid sheep.

 

Eamonn I truly hope you do not condone this policy by National. We as scouters have got to get over the idea that National can do no wrong and that we as a group have no power to effect change within the organization, because it is just not true.

[Hal_Crawford]

I just did a quick check of my desk and determined it would be a lot less cluttered if I discarded everything made in China. I doubt my employer would appreciate me discarding the brand new Cisco phone. Fortunately this keyboard is not made in China; is Thailand OK? They just turn their children into sex workers so the keyboard is alright? I have a hat here from Bayshore Scout Reservation. Yep! Made in China. Oh, crud! The monitor I'm looking at is made in China. Curse Dell! So are the Altec Lansing speakers. Altec Lansing? Say it ain't so. Can't easily reach the back of the CPU but I doubt that it is made in the USA. Oh, no! My shoes are from China as well! I'm not going to check the rest of my clothes 'cause at this point I don't want to know.

 

I know we hope for better from the BSA but the truth is it is hard to avoid Chinese products in our lives. It is hard to place political blame because this is the result of the trade policies of both Democratic and Republican administrations. It's businesses (and organizations like the BSA) that can shave a buck here or there by going with the lowest cost supplier. It's those of us (self included) who would rather spend less than make a patriotic statement at the retail store.

 

I'm afraid it would be hypocrisy for me to blame Mazucca or the BSA for doing what the rest of us do every day. Pogo said it best, "we have met the enemy and they are us".

 

Hal

[BadenP]

Hal, while you are right about electronics when it comes to clothing manufacturing here in the USA you are very wrong. There are several plants ready to go in manufacturing scout uniforms and could really use the business. The other factor is that I worked for Mazzuca and I know how he thinks and why the BSA is now doing business with China, if he can get a cheaper shirt, only by about a dollar by the way, he will. The problem is that the material and construction is so much more inferior that you will constantly need to buy replacements, and you can bet Mazzuca took that into account as well. It all comes down to mo money, mo money for National and that is the bottom line in this case pure and simple.

[OldGreyEagle]

Doesnt the Boy Scout Store have a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee on all their stuff? If a uniform piece fails, are not you supposed to be able to return it for a refund/replacement?

[Eagle92]

OGE,

How many new folks know that though, especially since it is not advertised like it use to be , i.e. Satisfaction Guarenetteed logo in every catalog and button worn by national scout shop staff? Also how many old fogeys will let it slide, b/c it is easier to fix the problem, then to cut off all the insignia, replace the uniform, and then sew the insignia back on?(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[BadenP]

OGE

That guarantee, if it is still even being honored is only for at most 30 days. But that is beside the point, WHY should scouts/scouters have to settle for poorly made and inferior quality uniforms with the premium prices that National charges for them. Is the new supply division motto buy high, get less? Any way you look at it it is just poor business practice with Mazzuca at the helm, and the really sad part is that the Chief Scout Exec. doesn't even give a dam*.

 

So OGE when you wear your new centinnel uniform for the first time and the pant seams split and the plastic patches on the shirt begin to peal away you can say with pride this is what National thinks is a high quality uniform and the image of the BSA they want to present to the rest of the country and world, lol. Remember those uniforms back in the sixties, they wore like iron, now the BSA has the Chinese Cheap Fabric Fall Apart Uniform,

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[skeptic]

BadenP:

 

For someone who is so out spoken about things and the honor of scouting, you surely are not setting a very good example. We all have issues with likely many things, and even perhaps a number of people in the program. But your strident attacks are becoming, at least to me, a bit tired. You do not like Mr. Mazzuca; that is your right. But your recent comments are bordering on slander.

 

Perhaps it is time for you to consider your recent posts from a distance, and maybe tone things down a bit. And, who knows, maybe someone else even agrees with me.

 

And just so you know, I too am disappointed in some aspects of the uniform, and even more burned at the increases in prices during such a serious economic downturn. I am also somewhat confused as to why a letter to Mr. Mazzuca has gone without any kind of response from him or his staff. But that is no reason to malign the man. I hope that perhaps more positive will evolve; that some positive changes will be forthcoming as we progress.

 

JMHO