Does the uniform drive kids away?

[Knot Head]

This is an interesting topic. Our troop class Bs have our troop logo and number in giant font in electric orange color. When you wear that t-shirt EVERYONE knows you are a boy scout, especially when you invade a Burger King with 20+ people in the exact same shirt that scream BOY SCOUTS. What is interesting to me is that in our troop no boys complain about wearing the class B t-shirt and letting everyone see that they are a boy scout. I do get complaints from 13+ year olds that the Class A looks geeky on the road in a Burger King, but they wear it anyway because it is expected. They are not embarrassed about being identified as a boy scout indeed most display scout activity photos such as canoeing, climbing, backpacking, etc. on their face book page. But they do find the class A embarrassing to wear on the road because in their opinion it looks nerdy. That is just the way they think. They are fine with class B shirts but uncomfortable with Class A on the road, but they wear it anyway.

 

They wear the Class A (socks, shirt, pants, and neckerchief) without complaint to all meetings during the school year and class Bs during summertime meetings. They wear Class A with MB sash to COH and BOR. The troop wears class A going to campouts and then class Bs for the drive home from campouts because we are usually kind of grubby on the way home.

 

Maybe I am wrong but I dont think we would gain or lose any numbers if we changed our uniform policy to allow class B on the way to campouts, but the boys sure would like the policy change. So I guess to answer the thread title... for our troop at least...the uniform does not drive boys away.

 

It is the activities that attract them, so lack of fun & interesting activities, would drive them away.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[jsummerlin]

I'm new to this forum, so have no background to look up. I am an eagle scout, vigil honor, philmont, cubmaster, asm, etc. A lot of scouting and I enjoy the program.

 

That said, I agree completely with "Knot Head". Class B t-shirts say "boy scouts" all over them, yet the boys wear them with pride. Why not the uniform? My opinion, the current uniform is outdated and not fun at all. It is too stiff and formal. T-shirt say outdoors, fun, relaxing. Class A says formal and stiff. Just my $.02. I wish we had a better class A, the new design only goes so far.

[theysawyoucomin']

So J what would your uniform look like?

 

 

I agree with tee shirts but I'd like something a little nicer for COH and helping people in the public eye. What would we march in parades with?

 

Let's look at what the Marine Corps does, they know a bit about uniforms.

 

First you have Utilities, camo uniform used for getting dirty. Mechanics wear coveralls to fix hummers, Amtracks and helos. So thats your "Class B". For anyone in "combat arms" this is what they wear every day, except for more formal occasions.

 

For more formal occasions we have "Service". The summer service "C" uniform looks 85% like the current uniform that "everybody" loves to loathe. In fact Oscar de la whatever did not deserve a nickel for designing the uniform he just saw some young PFC or Lance Corporal in an airport at the last minute and poof, that's what we had for years.

 

Next comes "Dress" which we don't need. It just shows the three levels.

 

You are never going to get one uniform to do everything.

 

I sure as heck don't want to become an all Tshirt group. But if there's a chance to mess up your uniform with stray sparks while DO cooking or picking up trash, a unit (Troop level) conceived Tshirt is the way to go.

 

Goes back to the original statement that there is a time and a place (and a uniform) for everything.

[adelarosa]

IMHO the uniform, although improvements have been made, is outdated. Kids like to look cool. Maybe a more tactical look with comfort considered would be the way to go. Of course cost is also an issue.

[BadenP]

Adelrosa, you are very correct about the uniform, look at the Brits new uniforms who use polo shirts and comfortable and fashionable pants or shorts and a necker. No reason for a uniform that has way too many patches, impractical in the outdoors, looks paramilitary, and is way too expensive.

[theysawyoucomin']

This kid looks like he's is going to take my order at Burger King

 

http://www.scoutshops.com/acatalog/scouts-uniform.html

 

 

Heck Baden your namesake wore ribbons with his uniform.

I agrree I'm not wearing "Class A's to the next canoe trip.

 

 

Those British prices ain't exactly cheap when you do the conversion to dollars and don't forget about the VAT(I am not sure it applies). Ours are still more expensive.

 

 

Adel,

what do you mean by "tactical". I've been tactical in Beirut and Kuwait, there ain't a darn thing that is cool about it. With all the weight I carried and sleeping in the rain tactical and comfortable are mutually exclusive.

 

 

[jsummerlin]

uz2bnowl, good points, but I wouldn't give up so quickly on the "1 uniform" idea. I think it can be done, the new centennial uniform is a step in the right direction, but falls short. Continue to tweek that shirt. Use modern breathable fabrics. Eliminate some of the silly pockets. Continue to make it "outdoors friendly", but look rugged when clean and at a COH.

 

Here is a more radical thought. Simplify the patches. Do we really need so many? Do they have to be so thick? Simple, lightweight patches would work great on an outdoors style uniform.

 

And I agree with the British scout uniform, not good :-)

[Eagle92]

I second the smaller pateches! Make smaller council strips, or better yet make them simple strips like the old Community strips. Go bacl to the old school POR patches with no wording and different color backgrounds to denote POR, i.e two bars for PL, Blue universal emblem for CM, etc. At one time NSJ and WSJ were considered temp insignia, so nothing was worn above the BSA strip. Keep rank, OA flaps, and CS Outdoor Award flaps the same size, ok maybe modify them to mathc the new uniform pockets.

[BadenP]

uz2,

I used the Brit example not to copy them but to show that a more outdoor practical, leisure looking uniform is possible without a billion patches covering every inch of material. I agree their uniforms are not color coordinated very well, but with the right color scheme I bet our boys would be much more willing to wear that style of uniform versus our current one.

The one down side for some adult scouters is that there wouldn't be anyplace to wear all their "fruit salad" aka knots, lol.

(FYI- vat is not charged if the order is going to be shipped out of Britain)

[SMT224]

Just back from summer camp, and thought about this issue while away... here are some of my thoughts...

 

1) On the way to camp we were all in full Class A uniform and looking sharp. We stopped at a Wendy's for lunch. With 30 Scouts and leaders we knew we were going to take over the place, but when we walked in, there were ~25 soldiers in field uniform from a near-by base. The soldiers acknowledged, smiled at, and nodded to our Scouts as we all stood in line waiting to order. I watched the faces of our Troop as they clearly felt pride to be in uniform. There were a few families in the restaurant, and those with young boys look at us and smiled, they knew who we were and what we represented. The few teen boys eating hamburgers looked at the Scouts with, dare I say it? Envy. Yes, it was clear that in this situation the Scouts were the cool ones, not the slackers with low pants and long t-shirts.

 

2) At camp, while in the dining hall for evening meals, I looked around at the 400+ Scouts and Scouters, all in Class A uniform, eating the evening meal. As I sat there, I thought about the purpose of the uniform and came up with some ideas... more than anything, the uniform is a communication device. It tells all that the wearer is a Scout and an American. It shows rank, Position of Responsibility, Patrol, Council, and Unit #. It let's others know what activities the wearer has been involved in, such a winter Klondike or OA. It let others know if you are trained, if you are with a Quality Unit, and as an adult, what awards you have won. And more than anything else, the uniform is honest -- the rank and POR you see on a Scout uniform is actually what he has earned. When you see a Scout with Life Rank and SPL patch, you know exactly what he is and what you can expect out of him. You know what experiences he has had to earn his rank and what his POR responsibilities are. And you can give him the respect he is due.

 

3) On the last night of camp, I asked the SPL what uniform we were to wear on the ride home. He consulted with the ASPL for a few seconds, and said "Class A, no neckerchief." He announced this to the Patrol Leaders, who passed it on to all in camp, and in the morning we pulled out in class A. No complaints or whining. 100% their decision.

 

4) Those parents or kids who feel put off by the uniform have no idea of what Scouting is all about, and likely no business in Scouting anyway. If a Troop does cave to their uniform complaints, it won't be long before they are complaining about something else, and soon quite no matter how many demands are met.

 

Our Troop has grown by over 200% over the past ten years, and we do what others here have described - Class A during the School year, Class B t-shirts during the summer, and Class A while in travel. No whining, no complaints, Scout enforced, and that's just the way it is. It works, and that's what Scouting is. Enough of giving in to the whiners.

 

[AvidSM]

SMT244 - excellent post!

 

I mean, you really nailed it.

 

The uniform does not drive kids away. The adults - who don't know how to lead a unit - are driving the kids away.

[GernBlansten]

The uniform may not drive kids away, but it certainly doesn't attract them.

[theysawyoucomin']

So Gern if you were the "boss" what would the uniform look like?

[GernBlansten]

A much simpler uniform. No doodads, ornaments or wingdings. Something practical that could be worn while camping not just there and back, but still identifies the scout as a scout to all scouts. Something in line with a national class B.

 

Then I would implement an optional full dress uniform. This one would be ornamental and garish. Functional only for parades, banquets and photo ops. Something along the line of the Swiss Guard at the Vatican or the US Marine Corps dress uniform. Like the existing class A.

[prairie]

Sounds good to me, reclassifie the tan shirts as Dress and produce green shirts for Field uniforms,current pants, shorts, neckersheifs, socks, and hats could be used with either. No shoulder tabs, discourage dangely things and other visual clutter (how many items do you really need to wear to show people your in OA or been to WoodBadge), offer at least two fabric choices, a cotton cheap enough that if it gets ruined it can be replaced and a hitech fabric for hot weather wear by us old fat geezers, US made? A new boy would be encoureged to get a Field shirt first and maybe never need a Dress version, unless he belongs to a troop whose idea of adventure is a trip to the library downtown.