BSA merchandise should be "Made in America" not China - Online Petition

[Krampus]

Ford trucks are not necessarily made in America, but some Toyota cars are.  Go figure.  We live in a global economy, buyer beware.

Thankfully Toyota cars are made with high quality Japanese steel and then sent here. They only use the cheap Chinese stuff in that market.

 

Ford uses, wait for it....Chinese steel.

[TAHAWK]

I remember boxes of Japanese nails being returned when I worked at a building supply wholesaler in the 1960's.  The problem Stosh mentioned.    "J*p Junk"

 

China can make quality goods.  We know this because they do.  (Including all - all -  the propellant for our Hellfire missiles.)  Why do they also send us junk?  'Cause we buy it.

 

When Camillus went under in 2007, B.S.A. tried to replace them with U.S. suppliers.  One U.S. company supplied the Cub knives for a time, but it turned out they were not made in U.S. after all.  Another U.S. company made several other B.S.A. knives, but the quality was very inconsistent - lots of returns.  When B.S.A. asked for better quality, the maker was unwilling to commit to better quality.  CHINA knives followed.

 

Ford is moving "small car" production to Mexico, which has lost 100,000s of jobs to China.

[Krampus]

I remember boxes of Japanese nails being returned when I worked at a building supply wholesaler in the 1960's.  The problem Stosh mentioned.    "J*p Junk"

 

 

So in 40 years China will make better stuff?

[Stosh]

If they follow Japan's processes, yes.  They took on America's car industry and beat the snot out of them.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Stosh

[TAHAWK]

So in 40 years China will make better stuff?

They already make better stuff.   The make it for sellers who demand quality.  That, of course, requires competence in those whose job is to insure adequate quality.  Benchmade and Spyderco have such persons, as do a number of Chinese companies.

[Krampus]

They already make better stuff.   The make it for sellers who demand quality.  That, of course, requires competence in those whose job is to insure adequate quality.  Benchmade and Spyderco have such persons, as do a number of Chinese companies.

 

Which industries? Their computer components suck. Their raw materials suck. 

 

Lord knows their clothing is thin and poor quality. Not seeing the "better" in anything I've purchased.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Krampus

[TAHAWK]

Then stop purchasing it.  If there were not purchasers, I doubt that the product would be made - at least not for long.

 

I mentioned two brands.  Obviously, you are not a knife knut.  Otherwise, you would recognize Spyderco and Benchmade.  I will add A.G. Russell and Kai.

 

You might be interested in this:  https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Chinese-products-of-such-low-quality I like the "race to the bottom" line.

[Krampus]

Then stop purchasing it.  If there were not purchasers, I doubt that the product would be made - at least not for long.

 

I mentioned two brands.  Obviously, you are not a knife knut.  Otherwise, you would recognize Spyderco and Benchmade.  I will add A.G. Russell and Kai.

 

You might be interested in this:  https://www.quora.com/Why-are-Chinese-products-of-such-low-quality I like the "race to the bottom" line.

 

I don't buy the Chinese junk. Ever. However sometimes you cannot avoid it.

 

Knife nut? Nope. Have my Swiss Army knife from 1976 and my original Buck knife from 1982. One made with European steel, the other with American steel.

 

I wonder how long these knife companies you mention have been using Chinese steel? Will you still be whistling this tune in 40 years about your Chinese made knife? Or will you be on you third replacement by then? There hasn't been enough time to pass to accurately judge the "better" quality case you are making. Time will tell.

 

My firm has a bit of experience with Chinese raw material sourcing in manufacturing. The quality is considered, by industry analysts, not to be as good as those sourced elsewhere. They blame manufacturing problems on product developers and designers (engineers). That's only part of the problem. They quality has to do with the raw materials themselves and the government owned raw materials providers that produce and sell inferior grade materials. This is not conjecture. Check out the host of information on the subject the EC has done with regard to this topic. Staggering.

[blw2]

yes, I'm very aware and almost always will notice where things are made

 

I'd love to follow the advice to just stop buying the foreign stuff.... especially from China and similar.  Sadly, it's just not realistic more often than not.  Some things sure, often I find that you can find little things, like wooden pencils in the school supply aisle, that are labeled USA alongside imports.... but with so many other things there just aren't many options readily available

 

Tires come to mind.

shoes

and since I just ordered my replacement cell phone, that comes to mind too.  The motorola currently in my pocket was at least 'assembled in the USA'.  Sadly, that's not even available to my knowledge any longer since the chinese bought the company.

 

I heard mention on the radio recently, about how much farm land the chinese are buying up here.  Apparently it's huge.

 

I find it very sad that our government allows so much land and industry to be bought by foreigners that aren't trying to immigrate here.

[TAHAWK]

I don't buy the Chinese junk. Ever. However sometimes you cannot avoid it.

 

Knife nut? Nope. Have my Swiss Army knife from 1976 and my original Buck knife from 1982. One made with European steel, the other with American steel.

 

I wonder how long these knife companies you mention have been using Chinese steel? Will you still be whistling this tune in 40 years about your Chinese made knife? Or will you be on you third replacement by then? There hasn't been enough time to pass to accurately judge the "better" quality case you are making. Time will tell.

 

My firm has a bit of experience with Chinese raw material sourcing in manufacturing. The quality is considered, by industry analysts, not to be as good as those sourced elsewhere. They blame manufacturing problems on product developers and designers (engineers). That's only part of the problem. They quality has to do with the raw materials themselves and the government owned raw materials providers that produce and sell inferior grade materials. This is not conjecture. Check out the host of information on the subject the EC has done with regard to this topic. Staggering.

My prospective includes, "I will not buy Japanese junk."  For my grandparents' generation it was, "I will not buy German junk." Go back far enough and it's "American junk."

 

Spyderco, Benchmade, A.G. Russell, and Kai have been sourcing knives from China for some years - over ten.  Those who use and review the knives find them to be of a high quality and a good value for the price. That is, they are not junk.  It does not take years to discover what can be discovered about fit & finish, heat treatment, and performance.  The U.S. Military apparently feels the same way in sourcing critical military items from China, although I wonder about the strategic aspects of relying on a country that seems to be increasingly aggressive.

 

Buy American sounds good to me, but don't fool yourself about the value equation. 

[MtnScouter]

We're not getting any "deals" in cost for our uniforms that are made in china, anyone and everyone who has bought a scouting uniform knows this, we're paying for made in America prices, we're the BSA, they should be made in America.

[Krampus]

Spyderco, Benchmade, A.G. Russell, and Kai have been sourcing knives from China for some years - over ten.  Those who use and review the knives find them to be of a high quality and a good value for the price. 

 

I wonder how much of the steel is actually from China. Is it mixed with other steel? Are they assembled in China? Are they using higher quality Japanese steel? 

 

In the construction business, Chinese steel is seen as inferior. I find it odd that they make great knives but stink at other steel objects.

 

We're not getting any "deals" in cost for our uniforms that are made in china, anyone and everyone who has bought a scouting uniform knows this, we're paying for made in America prices, we're the BSA, they should be made in America.

 

It's about profit. BSA is making a killing on the switchbacks OR they cannot negotiate a decent unit price to save their hides. If Magellan can offer the same product $20-30 cheaper than I suspect the answer is BSA likes making money on those pants.

[blw2]

I was thinking more about this earlier this morning....

the chinese are buying up US industrial companies, and buying up US land here.

But given their commy arrangement, when a chinese company buys us farmland, isn't that kinda like the chinese government buying deed/ownership of US soil? 

I'm no poly sci expert, but that just seems stupid that we allow this....

 

about the quality thing

I personally feel is like almost anything....

   there are junky products from china

   and there are quality products from china.

for me, it's not so much about quality as it is about sovereignty and US self sufficiency... independance.  Was it Thomas Jefferson, or maybe ben Franklin, that warned about losing independence when we loose manufacturing capability?.... 

[Scouter1074]

After some thought and little research… Impression is BSA doing a good job with uniforms.

https://www.scoutstuff.org/retail/faqs/global-sourcing-strategy

 

BSA 2014 Annual Report indicates “Supply operations – sales†totaled $140.5 Million and supply less cost of sales & expenses was $25.9 Million.  Total BSA revenue $244.0 Million. If I read this right… supply items marked up about 18% and provided 11% of revenue.  Seems reasonable.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/annualreport/2014/2014_Annual_Report.pdf

 

Public records indicate major supplier is MZM Textiles Ltd (aka MZM CEPZ) which seems to be a responsible operation. More info at http://www.bangladeshworkersafety.org/factory/factory-list-inspection-reports

 

MZM’s much larger customer is Bass Pro Shops. Not easy to compare BSA apples to Bass oranges, but after trying online the prices seemed comparable. Alas no Bass shop near me to compare quality.

 

And… recently bought a BSA uniform shirt for first time in many years and was pleased with price and quality.

 

It’d be nice if uniforms made in USA, but alas… not happening.  Another indicator… American Labor ranked 131 out of 136 Merit Badges earned in 2014.

[Stosh]

Material made in China.

 

Buttons made in China.

 

Thread made in China.

 

All shipped to US and sewn on Chinese made sewing machines by people making minimum wage.

 

All profits from the effort are sent back to China.

 

Label on the shirt says: "Made in America" - Yes, this can happen and it's perfectly legal.