BSA merchandise should be "Made in America" not China - Online Petition

[RememberSchiff]

Wait-a-minute. I thought servicemen bought their uniforms at base exchanges. Those base exchanges are for-profit so there must be a mark-up?

Edited April 18, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[Krampus]

Wait-a-minute. I thought servicemen bought their uniforms at base exchanges. Those base exchanges are for-profit so there must be a mark-up?

 

I am not comparing the BX/PX model with the cost of the uniform. The uniform is mandatory so parts of it are not sold at a profit (or at least weren't, cannot say what the current administration has done). Just because those elements were sold in the BX/PX does not make them necessarily sold at a profit. In the past they were not. They may be sold at profit today. Don't know 100%.

 

The BX/PX model does run at profit, but their mark up on unit costs is MUCH lower than civilian retail.

[TAHAWK]

Waste and not being concerned with cost are different issues.  Sure government wastes.  It's an aphorism.  Any time someone spends OPM - "Other Peoples' Money" - there is a substantial risk of waste - public or private sector.  I worked for a city, a county, a state, and the biggest corporation in the world.  Waste everywhere.  Also at all those places I saw the "spend you budget" phenomenon.  Surplus may cause a cut for next year.

 

Those aircraft that don't  work are assigned to the missions set for the military by the C-in-C.  Being unprepared worked so well in WWII and Korea.  So we're trying that approach once more - the "hollow armed forces" of Bubba's regime.  Or maybe the world is a safer place now.

 

And I have personal knowledge about parts shortage as a fellow Scouter's son is one of those cannibalizing existing aircraft to keep the minority operational.  Some of the needed part have not been made in ten years.  Planning ahead. 

 

Some do check out charities before donating.  One of them would be me.  Not a special virtue.   It is often an error to assume that only you possesses a given quality.   One common pattern is a non-profit whose actual governing purpose is raising money to pay its employees, with service to the supposed beneficiaries of the non-profit coming in a distant second. Think Wounded Warrior Project, Cabncer Fund of America, Red Scam. or . . . . .

 

 

BSA switchbacks are nearly $50. Academy Sports sells the Magellan switchbacks for half that.

$15.98 today for kids sizes.  $24.99 for adults.

 

Probably not made in U.S.A. - or anywhere in America.

Edited April 18, 2016 by TAHAWK

[desertrat77]

Wait-a-minute. I thought servicemen bought their uniforms at base exchanges. Those base exchanges are for-profit so there must be a mark-up?

 

 

I am not comparing the BX/PX model with the cost of the uniform. The uniform is mandatory so parts of it are not sold at a profit (or at least weren't, cannot say what the current administration has done). Just because those elements were sold in the BX/PX does not make them necessarily sold at a profit. In the past they were not. They may be sold at profit today. Don't know 100%.

 

The BX/PX model does run at profit, but their mark up on unit costs is MUCH lower than civilian retail.

 

Gents, long story short...while Army and AF uniforms are sold at a PX/BX complex, the military clothing sales stores are actually under separate management.    Defense Logistics Agency Troop Support is responsible the stuff that gets stocked in clothing sales.  

 

Not sure if MCSS/DLATS makes a profit.   I rather doubt it.  

 

Issued/purchased uniforms:   enlisted basic trainees are issued their initial set of uniforms.   Thereafter, each service member is responsible for replacing anything no longer "clean, dry or serviceable."   Enlisted get a small clothing allowance each year;  officers pay for everything out of their own pocket, even when they join.

 

The uniforms are made in America.   There is just as much grousing about quality, fit and functionality about mil uniforms as there is about the BSA uniform here at this forum.     Speaking only of the AF uniforms, the dress items don't fit well (even when tailored) and don't look that good either.   Field uniforms are over-engineered (trying to be all things to all people, work in every environment = no one likes them and they don't work well anywhere...sound familiar?)

 

Marines and Navy:  not sure, but they may have a similar set up thru NEX.

 

Coast Guard:  really not sure about them either.

 

(Added)  PS   Uniforms are issued if they are unique to a career field--flight suits, for example.   Also, if you deploy to a place that requires a different uniform, those are issued to all.   

Edited April 18, 2016 by desertrat77

[Krampus]

Gents, long story short...while Army and AF uniforms are sold at a PX/BX complex, the military clothing sales stores are actually under separate management.    Defense Logistics Agency Troop Support is responsible the stuff that gets stocked in clothing sales.  

 

Not sure if MCSS/DLATS makes a profit.   I rather doubt it.  

 

 

Yeah I was trying to avoid the deep details on military supply.

 

MCSS/DLATS does not operate at a profit because they are not part of the PX/BX supply chain. 

 

Marines fall under relatively the same construct as Army with regard to supply. I assume Navy does but not 100% sure. CG gets their stuff at Old Navy.

[desertrat77]

Yeah I was trying to avoid the deep details on military supply.

 

MCSS/DLATS does not operate at a profit because they are not part of the PX/BX supply chain. 

 

Marines fall under relatively the same construct as Army with regard to supply. I assume Navy does but not 100% sure. CG gets their stuff at Old Navy.

 

I sure took the bait, didn't I?

[RememberSchiff]

 

. I assume Navy does but not 100% sure. CG gets their stuff at Old Navy.

 

Backwards, Navy gets their new stuff from Old Coast Guard.    The Navy is dumping their "blueberries" (NWU, the blue digital cammies) for the CG ODU.

 

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/06/14/navy-downsize-nwu-utility-coveralls-frv-cnp/26235269/

Edited April 18, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[desertrat77]

Backwards, Navy gets their new stuff from Old Coast Guard.    The Navy is dumping their "blueberries" (NWU, the blue digital cammies) for the CG ODU.

 

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/06/14/navy-downsize-nwu-utility-coveralls-frv-cnp/26235269/

 

Most Sailors I've talked to have never been impressed by the NWU (to put it lightly and in family-friendly phrasing).

 

As a career Airman, I can say first hand that the ABU was zero improvement over the old BDU.   It was discovered that the ABU fabric was dangerous on the battlefield or at the disaster scene (melting to skin, etc.)   So another cotton version was introduced.  

 

I could go on and on, but suffice to say:   When field uniforms are designed by higher headquarters types, most of whom were never in the field, nor have any intention of ever being in the field, nor desire/request any input from people in actually in the field, you get a uniform that just doesn't meet the needs of the people who wear it each day.  

[RememberSchiff]

"Higher headquarter types" fare worse as they attempt to replace firearms, vehicles, weapons, blimps (loved that loose Army JLENS blimp in PA only the Amish were unaffected), aircraft, ships, ...software

 

[JasonG172]

Last year, I bought my son 2 pair of the cub switchbacks and 2 of the blue scout shirts. I foolishly assumed that being BSA, they would be fairly durable. After the first washing, the thread used in the pants began to disintegrate.

 

Now I'll jump in right here and state that I own 3 different kind of scout pants and when I say that I wear them almost everyday that it is not an exaggeration.  Mine last me a good 2 or 3 years.  My sons out grew his before he finally blew the butt out.  Also if there is a defect they store GLADLY will exchange them!  The products HOLD UP

Edited April 19, 2016 by JasonG172

[Krampus]

Now I'll jump in right here and state that I own 3 different kind of scout pants and when I say that I wear them almost everyday that it is not an exaggeration.  Mine last me a good 2 or 3 years.  My sons out grew his before he finally blew the butt out.  Also if there is a defect they store GLADLY will exchange them!  The products HOLD UP

 

I've had mixed results.

 

The ones made in Bangladesh have held up fine. Kudos for that. Equal kudos to the Magellan ones which were half the price and worn just as often. Same condition.

 

The one pair I have that was NOT made in Bangladesh fell apart fairly fast...less than 3 months.

[blw2]

interesting. Think I'll take a look to see where mine came from...

My canvas shorts have had two failures of the cargo pocket stitching.  The first time I almost lost my wallet!

and I am a relatively light / infrequent wearer....

 

I knew the store would stand by it, but our store is far away from me and I NEVER go in that direction so it was just easier for me to run them through my sewing machine.  The first time I only repaired.  If i'm remembering correctly, the next failure I just went ahead and re-enforced both pockets entirely.

 

anyway, besides the excessive fading from washing and this failure.... so far I'm otherwise happy with the uniforms.

I do wish though it was made in USA..... or even assembled in USA.

 

 

on another note

in shopping for hiking shoes, I found this one made in USA

http://www.chacos.com/US/en/home

I think it might be only some models, but it's at least something!

[TAHAWK]

2007

"PAONIA, Colo. " Chaco sandals will no longer be made in the small western Colorado town of Paonia, though the company headquarters will remain there.

The company is in the process of moving the rest of its manufacturing operation to China.

When the remaining line of Chacos still being assembled in Paonia moves overseas, sometime next summer, about 50 jobs in Paonia will be eliminated, though 10 or 12 of those jobs are expected to be absorbed into other departments within the company.

 

The remainder of the employees will be offered severance packages, said General Manager Ed Wieland.

Founded in Paonia in 1989 by owner Mark Paigen, Chaco remained a tiny company for about a decade before experiencing a growth spurt in 1998-99. Its sandals are popular with the outdoor crowd.

The company has less than $25 million in sales. "We are growing very rapidly," Wieland said.

"It's important to understand, with the exception of the Headwaters line " we were already producing in China for the past four years," Wieland said. Popular with river runners, Headwaters sandals can be worn in water and for hiking.

In August, Chaco employees learned that one of the Headwaters' models would be manufactured in China. Two months later, the company announced it would move the remainder of its production to China as well.

"Starting in 2009, 100 percent will be going to China," Wieland said. "It's been coming for a long time."

China makes 95 percent of all footwear in the world, Wieland said. "They are the kings."

The cost of making a pair of sandals in China is significantly lower than in Paonia, he explained.

The defect rate is also lower in China than in Paonia, he said.

In addition, the Paonia plant doesn't have the technical capability to produce models on the drawing board, Weiland said.

The company hasn't been able to claim "made in Paonia" for a long time.

"The majority of the components come from abroad," Wieland said. Foot beds come from New England, webbing is from France and China.

"We couldn't even use the 'made in USA label,'" Wieland said. "They're assembled in Paonia."

Chaco headquarters will remain in Paonia, and its distribution center will stay in Delta, Colo. together employing approximately 60 people in the areas of sales, product development, customer service, information technology, finance and marketing, Wieland said."

2012

"ROCKFORD, Mich., March 27, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Responding to the extraordinary emotional connection its consumers have with the brand, Chaco launches MyChacos, a one-of-a-kind "Made in the USA" custom sandalprogram.  Over the past two decades, Chaco has developed a loyal and active community of fans affectionately called "Chaconians."  In response to these supporters' desires for unique webbing and color options, Chaco has created a place for them to build and personalize their own pair of Chaco sandals.  The new website,www.mychacos.com, offers deep customization with nine dimensions of color, material, and sole choices to create tens of millions of possibilities.

...

The ReChaco team, Chaco's on-site warranty and repair group based in Rockford, Michigan, will build each pair of MyChacos sandals.  Because the domestic value of labor and materials of each custom pair exceeds 89 percent, they will be labeled "Made in the USA."  An integral part of the brand for over 10 years, ReChaco mends customer's well-worn sandals and in 2011 made their 25,000th repair under Wolverine Worldwide ownership.  All MyChacos sandals can be re-webbed and resoled in the future, extending the life of the precious personalized sandals; and they are covered under Chaco's lifetime guarantee against material and workmanship defects."

 

2012

 

"I am one of the Chaco sales reps here in the Rockies. I have always been a kayaker and a rafter, so I know where you are coming form when you are looking for rugged durable product. 

It really scares me that all you have so much false information. 

Facts....

1. Chaco moved production to China before Wolverine purchased the brand. 

2. Wolverine is the parent company that owns Merrell, is the licensee of patagonia Footwear and a handful of other footwear brands. Wolverine is a good american company, and saved a small colorado footwear company that was having issues meeting demand, was for sale, and needed to be purchased to save the brand. 

3. You can still send in your Chacos for repair, new outsoles or new webbing. They can even build you a pair of american made Chacos if you really want them. 

4. The Price of Chaco's have not gone up in price at all since they were purchased. 

5. There are less returns on the China made Chaco products than the US made product. Sorry guys, but they know how to make shoes in China and are more consistent in quality. 

6. All shoes wear out.. and sometimes the wearer is harder on them than his "last" pair. 

7. Look at your labels in your clothes, outdoor gear, car, shoes.. If you are using a name brand product, chances are it is made abroad. 

8. Chaco is one of the title sponsors of Telluride Bluegrass, and FIBARK. They are putting money back into the outdoor/ white water world for us all to enjoy.


I am open for questions/ Comments and Concerns. 

Ryan"

Edited April 20, 2016 by TAHAWK

[blw2]

well thanks a lot, Tahawk!

way to pop a bubble!

oh well, I knew it was too good to be true!

[blw2]

ok, here u go

buy USA

http://www.keenfootwear.com/americanbuilt