Mixing Boy Scout and Venturing Uniform Parts

[ScoutmasterBradley]

Is it appropriate (and/or "legal") to mix parts of the Boy Scout uniform and the Venturing uniform?

 

The reason I ask is because of the uniforming practices of somes the staff of my local council summer camp (of which I will be a part of this summer). The staff is required wear the the green Boy Scout shorts and the green Boy Scout socks with a "class B" shirt during the day. However for times when the staff wears the "class A" (such as for flag ceremonies, campfires, and such) some of the staff wear the tan Boy Scout uniform shirt while others wear their green Venturing shirts.

 

Now is it okay for them to wear the green Venturing shirt with the green Boy Scout shorts and socks (rather than with the grey Venturing shorts and socks)?

[Eamonn]

"Is it appropriate (and/or "legal") to mix parts of the Boy Scout uniform and the Venturing uniform?"

No.

Just as it wouldn't be OK to mix a Cub Scout uniform with a Boy Scout uniform.

Have to admit to not liking the word "Legal"!

Chances are that if no one makes a fuss everything will go just fine.

The Camp Director is the guy in charge and while he can't change the uniform, he will do his best to do what is best for the camp and the camp staff.

Eamonn.

 

[emb021]

"Is it appropriate (and/or "legal") to mix parts of the Boy Scout uniform and the Venturing uniform?"

 

No.

 

The venturing uniform is the forest green shirt with charcoal gray pants/shorts (they do NOT have to be from National Supply). Venturing has their own belt, hats, and socks.

 

Venturers are actually barred from wearing the tan BSA uniform (including the olive shorts/pants).

 

If all of the staff are Boy Scouts, then having them wear only their boy scout uniforms while 'on duty' is fine. However, if he has any Venturers who are NOT Boy Scouts (say, female Venturers), requiring them to wear Boy Scout uniforms isn't fair (also costly for them, as they probably don't have any and would have to buy them).

 

That said, I don't get bent out of shape about it. There are bigger fish to fry.

 

[shortridge]

I'd object, simply because the green shorts and green shirt are two different shades and don't match one whit.

 

As an alternative, you could suggest (for future years) that the "class B" workaday uniform include regular khaki shorts instead. Available from many sources.

[mmhardy]

Quoted from another thread from 2004.

 

"The Venturer Handbook says on page 6 that the "recommended" uniform is the over priced pants, shorts, shirt, socks and hat. However it goes on to say that the uniform, if any, is the choice of the crew."

 

Bottom line is that the Venture uniform is the choice of the crew. Unless the camp has a specific dress code that applies to campers and staffers then it is what it is.

[Eagle92]

if the summer camp staff is a Venturing Crew, then you have to follow their regs. Most summer camps will give a discount to staffers for uniform parts.

[emb021]

"The Venturer Handbook says on page 6 that the "recommended" uniform is the over priced pants, shorts, shirt, socks and hat. However it goes on to say that the uniform, if any, is the choice of the crew."

 

That's isn't QUITE what it says.

 

the comment about 'over priced' is out of line. You don't need to get the pants/shorts from National Supply, you just need to get charcoal gray ones from any source. I have several, all I paid less then $20 for. My belt is my leather philmont belt. Before they came out with the venturing socks, I wore a pair of gray socks.

 

What is left out is the statement that Venturers CAN'T wear the tan BSA uniform.

 

While Venturing Crews can pick their own uniform, if Venturers attend events in which a BSA uniform is expected or required, they WILL have to get the above specified uniform. So if they serve on staff at National Jamboree, or attend OA events, etc, they will need that. There is a reason the National Venturing Cabinet ALL wear the green/gray venturing uniform.

 

Its because of these persistent 'discussions' about Venturing uniforms that I wrote the Venturing Uniform FAQ that available at the USScouting Service project site.

[Beavah]

Yah, ScoutmasterBradley, seems like you have somethin' about your local camp stuck in your craw, eh?

 

Generally speakin' camp staff follows the direction of the their employer, the council, in terms of dress code. And council scout executives are given some leeway in allowing variations in uniforming under some circumstances.

 

Not somethin' to spend any time on as a unit scouter. Though I agree with yeh that green over olive looks pretty bad .

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

But emb021 if you follow the exact wording if you elect to wear the green venturing shirt you must also wear the OFFICIAL venturing shorts or pants, just as a boy scout can not go out a buy a pair olive green pants that look like the official ones, the same is true for venturing it is either all or nothing. As one who is always citing the rules for venturing I am surprised on your slip-up here. The handbook and leaders manual both state, as does Venturing Leaders training, that if you choose the official venturing uniform it must be complete, including the belt and socks. I personally agree with you on the pants but those are the rules, and mmhardy's comment essentially correct.

[ScoutmasterBradley]

I understand that venture crews can set their own uniform a crew has the right to devise their own uniform if they wish, whether they want to use the recommended "overpriced" pants, shorts, shirt, socks and hat to be their uniform, or some kind of crew t-shirt, or a polo shirt, or something else. They can devise their own uniform. So in a sense, the camp staff (which all belong to a single council-sponsored venture crew) could use the green shirt with the green shorts as their uniform.

 

However, does a crew have complete freedom to do whatever they want with the official uniform parts? Could a crew elect to wear the blue Cub Scout shirts as their uniform? Could a crew's uniform be the official green venture shirt but with the patches sown in all kinds of crazy places (not following the insignia guide)? Could a venture crew (including the female members) elect to wear the tan Boy Scout shirt and green pants? If a crew opts to use the official uniform, do they have to follow the rules that go with it?

 

The reason I asked these questions is that I am part of a group from the camp staff working to re-establish the staff "dress code" and uniform policy - in past few years the staff uniforming practices have been ignored and have slowly deteriorated into what ever the staff wanted (as long as it was official BSA clothing no one questioned, or was educated enough, to know if things were being worn properly). We want to set some rules and do things right this summer. We want to have a staff that is dressed appropriately, respectfully and is setting a proper example for the scouts and scouters that come to our camp.

 

I also understand that "legally" our Scout Exec could clear almost anything, but is it really right to exploit or twist the uniform to whatever we want especially since many visitors to camp may not know we got this exception approved? So is mixing the uniforms properly respecting the uniforms and programs and is it setting a proper example for other scouts and crews?

[OldGreyEagle]

The Crew has a right to "Make up" its own uniform, but if it decides on the green shirt, then the charcoal pants follow. It is not correct to combine parts of the uniform from the different programs.

 

I guess an Emo Crew could have its female members wear cub scout uniform tops with short grey shorts while the male members wore skinny black girl jeans with a tight black T-shirt, eye make up and cried all the time

 

related note, I wish my lawn would go Emo, so it would cut itself...

 

OK, BadenP is correct brad follow his post

[emb021]

"But emb021 if you follow the exact wording if you elect to wear the green venturing shirt you must also wear the OFFICIAL venturing shorts or pants."

 

No, that't not what it says.

 

It mearly says you must wear charcoal gray pants/shorts. It was never written and never intended that you must get the shorts/pants from National Supply. Heck, NS never made pants/shorts for Venturing for several years at the begining. We had to go elsewhere. The ones worn in the early pictures came from LL Bean. And many of the national people have worn them from Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop etc.

 

"However, does a crew have complete freedom to do whatever they want with the official uniform parts? Could a crew elect to wear the blue Cub Scout shirts as their uniform? Could a crew's uniform be the official green venture shirt but with the patches sown in all kinds of crazy places (not following the insignia guide)? Could a venture crew (including the female members) elect to wear the tan Boy Scout shirt and green pants? If a crew opts to use the official uniform, do they have to follow the rules that go with it?"

 

No, a crew does NOT have complete freedom. (btw, its "Venturing crew").

 

It clearly states that the tan uniform is not for Venturers to wear.

 

IF you wear the green venturing shirt, you MUST following the insignia guide. This is stated in the literature.

 

Heck, this is what is stated:

 

"uniforms and insignia (BSA). The BSA green Venturing shirt is available for wear by Venturers and adult leaders. The green Venturing short-sleeve shirt with green shoulder loops will be worn with charcoal gray shorts or long pants as the recommended field uniform for Venturers. Male and female Venturers should not wear the BSA tan shirt with green shoulder loops. Existing insignia placement policies related to BSA uniforms shall apply to the green Venturing shirt. Crews choosing to wear a patch related to their specialty may do so on the right shoulder sleeve. District, division, council, and national adult leaders related to Venturing may wear the green, silver, or gold shoulder loops with the green Venturing shirt. Sea Scouts may choose to wear nautical-style uniforms using Sea Scouting insignia available from the BSA Supply Division. For further information on BSA uniforms and insignia, contact your BSA local council or refer to the Venturer Handbook. A uniform, if any, is the choice of the crew."

 

 

Nothing is said about the source of the charcoal gray pants/shorts.

 

Nothing is said about belt/socks. Obviously, belts should be scouting related.

 

[Eagle92]

Actually the Venturing shorts came out in Aug orSept. 1999 and the pants a year later. I remember b/c I bought my wife a brand new Venturing uniform with the shorts as soon as they came out. I rember the pants came out a year later b/c I wanted a pair and asked the scout shop manage if I could be issued just a pair of ventuing pants instead of another full ODL uniform. No Dice.

 

 

[mmhardy]

Not to sound too picky but I see alot of words like "recommend", "should" and "may". Like 99% of most Scouting stuff its not written in stone. Given the current economy as long as it looks sharp I would say let it go.

 

Personally I think the grey slacks make these guys look like your local sheriff. An identical dark green color pant or short looks more put together. Explorers had this in the 1950s. A white belt (seen on some Ship Crews) really looks sharp!

 

[emb021]

"Personally I think the grey slacks make these guys look like your local sheriff. An identical dark green color pant or short looks more put together. Explorers had this in the 1950s. A white belt (seen on some Ship Crews) really looks sharp!"

 

Maybe so, but that's not what was picked for Venturing.

 

With Explorers, the uniform was the forest green shirt with brown trim. This was used for the hats and pants. For some reason they never created forest green shorts, so they always had to use the scout shorts with the forest green shirt. Belts were white web belts with an explorer brass buckle.

 

When they first dropped the forest green uniform back in the 70s, they never brought back the forest green pants when they brought back the shirt.

 

Instead for Venturing, it was decided to go with charcoal gray pants/shorts instead of forest green. The hats, too, were charcoal gray instead of forest green. No idea who decided that or what their thinking was.

 

Since that is the color specified, we go with it.