New insginia guide

[Eagle92]

Oh Boy this is gonna be fun!!!! ok sarcasm off. So now a few of my friends will now have to velcro unit numbers and PORs to their uniforms in addition to switching their loop's color when they switch roles. Why couldn't national KIS by having one color number for all three programs that use numbers:CS, BS, and Venturing. Maybe national should let us do what Sea Scouts have done; no longer wear unit numbers on our unforms.

 

Ok last comment was sarcasm again.

[emb021]

"Why couldn't national KIS by having one color number for all three programs that use numbers:CS, BS, and Venturing."

 

Well, actually, that's what they did around 1955 or so, when all community/state strips and numbers went to white on red (except for sea scouts).

 

Before that we had different color schemes for these:

 

Cub Scouts- yellow on blue

Boy Scouts- red on khaki

Explorers/Explorer Scouts- brown on green

Air Explorers/Air Scouts- royal blue on sky blue

Sea Explorers/Sea Scouts- navy on white, white on navy

 

Obviously a major stock issue, as you're not just dealing with numbers, but in those days before CSPs, community strips and state strips.

 

Now we have the green/khaki numbers for the centennial uniform for those people, youth and adults, who wear them (Boy scouts and their leaders, cub scout leaders, webelos scouts and their leaders). the old red & white are left for cub scouts and Venturing.

 

 

"Maybe national should let us do what Sea Scouts have done; no longer wear unit numbers on our unforms."

 

which personally I think is a mistake. Sea Scouts have used unit numbers from day one. The 'rational' for dropping the unit numbers was to encourage Ships to create ship patches to identify themselves (which are worn on the right sleeve). They still make the numbers, and many ships still wear them. I think the National Sea Scout Committee needs to reverse this decision.

 

[AlFansome]

emb021 says:

"Now we have the green/khaki numbers for the centennial uniform for those people, youth and adults, who wear them (Boy scouts and their leaders, cub scout leaders, webelos scouts and their leaders). the old red & white are left for cub scouts and Venturing."

 

From what I read in the new Insignia Guide while browsing at the Scout shop, I got the impression that Webelos and Cub Leaders are supposed to wear red unit numbers, even on the green uniform. Of course, the picure of the Cubs/leaders in the Centennial uniforms had green/khaki numbers. :-o

 

Go figure...

[cimarron8889]

I have to say I am disappointed at how the Centennial Uniform was rolled out along with the long wait for the new inspection sheets and new Insignia Guide.

 

I found numerous discrepancies and errors in the new Insignia Guide. A good editor familiar with Scouting could easily have corrected them.

[Al'sDad]

Clear as mud ... Keeping in mind that the official uniform "shall be those approved by action of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America from time to time, as illistrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boys Scouts of America." (Rules and Regulataions, Clause 2) ...

 

You would think it would be clear - CS leaders unit numbers - "Unit number, cloth, white on red...Cub Scout and Cub Scout leader..." (2009-2010 IG, pg 9). However, the photographs of the CS leader and the Webelos boy in the IG both show green numbers on the Centenial Uniform.

 

I think the discrepancy comes because the writers of the IG seem to believe that CS leaders only wear the old uniform and BS leaders wear the new one. For instance, look at the regulations for the trained strip. "The (trained)emblem is worn on the left sleeve immediately below and touching the emblem of office for which it was earned for Cub Scout leaders and Venturing leaders. Boy Scout leaders wear on the left sleeve above the badge of office on the sleeve pocket flap." (IG, pg 31). In practice, the distinction between these two methods of wearing the trained strip is based on which uniform is worn, not the program you are in.

 

Furthermore, it states "The Boy Scout Trained emblem is green. The Cub Scout and Venturing Trained emblems are red." (IG, pg. 49). In practice, if a CS leader wears the Centenial Uniform, there is no space below the Badge of Office for a trained strip because of the position of the pocket. Similarly, if the CS leader wears the red trained strip but puts it on the pocket flap, it won't fit.

 

Clearly, these differences are dictated by the pocket on the sleeve on the Centenial Uniform but the IG writer have framed it incorrectly as a distinction between CS and BS. And when there are diagrams, they show the pocket on the sleeve only in reference to Boy Scouts.

 

Therefore, my take on the CS unit numbers on the Centenial Uniform is that it probably has never been thought out by the Executive Board. I suspect the Board has not taken a formal recorded position on it. Therefore, it depends on who you talk to at national as to what answer you get. The written words in the IG clearly do not contemplate CS leaders in the Centenial Uniform. The only indication of unit number color for a CS leader in the Centenial Uniform is the photo in the IG that shows green numbers and green trained strip on the pocket flap. That being the only indication that is clear, I will wear green numbers and green trained strip on my CS leader Centenial uniform.

 

(This message has been edited by Al'sDad)

[AlFansome]

Al'sDad writes:

 

"Similarly, if the CS leader wears the red trained strip but puts it on the pocket flap, it won't fit."

 

Guess what...the red trained strips (that were yanked from the Scout Shops for a while) are now back...and are the same size as the green ones.

 

So if (as a Cub leader), I move to the new uniform, then I'll use the red trained strips, but they'll go on the flap, not below the position patch where it makes no sense.

 

 

[Eagle92]

So let me get this straight, there is now a newer trained strip that is red based for Cub leaders to wear on the new uniform. Also for those of us (future) cub leaders who have the new long sleeve shirts, we are supposed to wear trained strip on the little Swiss tab thingie. WHO THE HECK CAME UP WITH THIS CRAP!

 

Ok need a breath and back away.

 

Me thinks I am gonna use what I already have and let the patch police fine me. they can take it out of my pay.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[AlFansome]

Yeah...after all the stuff about pulling the old trained strips from the stores since "red is out", they re-introduce it and then put pretty much all the red back into Webelos and Cub Leader uniforms, instead of reinforcing the fact that Webelos are transitioning to Boy Scouts and that leaders are leaders period.

 

If only all of us on the forums were in charge! :-)

[Eagle92]

Well what really irks me is that I just purchased a new uniform shirt with most of the trimmings. As i stated earlier, I am about to say the heck with it and just use what I already have.

 

After calming down and thinking about it, why do I have a feeling red numbers will be back after jambo, if not earlier?

 

[desertrat77]

Having just marked year 25 in the Air Force, I've discovered one thing about uniforms:

 

Simple is best.

 

Too many uniform doodads, dangles, geegaws, pocket cookies, and variations thereof (ostensibly approved to "boost morale and recognition") will often result in confusion, non-compliance or a cluttered appearance.

 

Then the clutter obscures the truly meaningful items.

 

Folks want to wear their uniform with pride. It's alot easier to achieve when accouterment options are manageable and the directions are clear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Ok I got SOME clarification on stuff in the IG. Called my old shop about it.

 

1) the references to CS leaders with red numbers and trained strip under the POR is in reference to FEMALES in the YELLOW BLOUSE. That is a major typo according to my source. If you are in the centennial uniform you DO wear tan and green numbers, whether Webelos, Male CS leader or female CS leader IN THE CENTENNIAL BLOUSE ONLY.

 

2)In reference to the new trained strip that looks like the old one but smaller, source didn't know what the heck was going on as there has not been alot of info about it from national. When I asked if a CS leader in the centennial could use the new trained strip, source said he wouldn't worry about it.

 

MY OPINION: They brought back the old trained patch for Venturing leaders, Females in the yellow blouse, and those of us who have old uniforms. AGAIN MY OPNION ONLY. Too bad they didn't implement the green and white Trained strips for venturing leaders.

 

3) Some minor moddification have been made or in the process of being made to the uniforms. One is more belt loops on the larger pants. Another is longer shirt tails. Source also believe the tech pocket will be moved up some as well.

 

Looks like I need new unit numbers as I cannot use the red and whites I have. Luckily they are the fully embroidered ones that wife can use with her vintage uniform.