Camoflage clothing with cub uniforms. What do you think?

[amethyst]

Should cubs wear camoflage pants and shorts with their uniform or not? They really do not match.I really think it is a disrespect to wear them with the cub uniform. Please give me some imput or insights on this subject. Also I am sorry if I am repeating a thread.

 

YIS,

 

amethyst

[SSScout]

Amethyst: Welcome to the electronic crackerbarrel. Thank you for your service to our boys...

 

IMHO, your question answers itself. One cannot wear "camo pants with the uniform" because they are not defined as part of the uni.

See:

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/uniform/parents.aspx

 

You will often find BSs and CSs units that for $$ reason choose not to wear uni trousers but choose to allow BSs and CSs to wear (uniformly thruout the unit) 'clean jeans' or some other choice with the uni shirt. They thus refer to the shirt alone as 'THE' uniform. But strictly, it is not. The shirt is only part of the uni.

Camo pants or shorts are often seen as 'military' gear and as such should be avoided. Camo is intended to make the wearer harder to see in certain situations. The uni is intended to help define the Scout.

Is it cool to play soldier? undoubtably, but your boys should be playing Scout, wouldn't you agree?

 

See also http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/camo.htm for a lengthy discussion and references.

 

Beautiful purple crystal, amethyst. A favorite in my fathers mineral collection.

 

 

[scoutldr]

There is only one proper uniform...it does not include camouflage, or any other non-BSA pants/shorts.

[amethyst]

Exactly what I thought. It seems that Circle Ten needs to see the information that you all sent to me. I do know that our boys are allowed and always have been allowed to wear blue jeans, never before camo. I feel personally that it is a disrespect to our military to do such. Thank you for all input.

 

amethyst

[IM_Kathy]

as everyone else has stated the proper uniform is the blue pants for cubs.

 

our Pack did allow anything to be worn, but I recommend all in my den to wear blue pants... due to cost and huge growth spurts most of us actually went with buying blue slacks from walmart for the $10 rather than the offical scout pants.

 

now in boy scouts my son does own 1 pair of offical boy scout green, but then owns a few unofficial green pants as well for those "where are my scout pants" days.

[CD_Ranger]

I wonder why they are making the uniforms harder to see now by changing the letter/numbers from red to green? Seems like they are moving to camo uniforms. Just food for thought.

[Frank17]

SSScout: Excellent link. I had always wondered about the camo ban reference in BSA policies.

[Eagle92]

I've rad the link and WOW. Now I knew that cammies were inappropriate for uniforms. No problem there. Didn't know were weren't supposed to wear them at camp at all. When I was a COPE director doing high course activities, all I wore were cammie pants and staff t-shirt as the {now old) scout pants are not up to snuff for harness and/or webbing. In fact those were recommended wear at NCS.

 

Also I still see alot of cammies at OA ordeals and workdays. Again great clothing to get dirty and stained in as you have to look close to notice the stains, unless it's red paint on your pants:)

 

Now I need to pose this question in reference to sea scout uniforms. I know sea scouts are authorized to wear US navy uniforms with the appropriate Sea Scout modification. But now that the navy is doing away withthe classic dungarees: light blue chambray shirt and jean bell bottoms, for the new blue gray work uniforms found here:

http://www.new-navy-uniform.com/picture-nwu.html will they be authorized to wear this new uniform?

[SctDad]

I think people need to find something that is a little more productive with time.

 

Ask you District and/or council. If they do not threaten to send you home or something like that, then they obviously don't have a problem. I wore camo pants to Day camp last year and no one said anything

 

As for the military saying anything about it. Here is the ruling (at least with the Army.) You may wear the uniform parts, as long as there is no insignia or such worn on it. IE Remove Rank.

 

Yes, I too saw the pants at ordeal weekends and such. I know what Eagle 92 is refereing to. I saw them at Fall Fellowship. But I guess there are some thing that are more important.

 

BTW, if they had asked me to leave Day Camp last year, then all the boys in my pack would have had to leave. I was the YP trained leader and only registered leader. THe rest were parents(This message has been edited by SctDad)

[SSScout]

SctDad: Thank you for your service to our boys. Sometimes seems there ain't many of us left.

But the issue isn't about what the Army/navy/CG/Girenes might allow, but what is considered appropriate by the BSA? If a DE is willing to "stand in the gate", well and good.Perhaps in that case there were other problems afoot. But BSA leaders still need to set the example.

 

I am sorry no one could come up to you and respectfully engage you in conversation about what is appropriate as uniform. Ahead of time, at our CSDC, we announced (via "guidelines" and emails, etc.) What we considered "appropriate" attire both for Staff and Pack Denwalkers. We had previous years where we had to take Scouts (M & F) and adults aside and encourage them to not wear sexy, short shorts, plunging necklines, camo stuff, atheletic type shorts. Don't want the Archery Range Officer distracted from his duties (oops, grey area...). But seriously, the Scout uni was desired, even in it's CSDC variant. Staff should look like Staff not resort visitors. When a Scout Staffer ripped off his Staff Tshirt sleeves (muscle shirt look), we gave him a new one and POINTEDLY said that was NOT his Staff uniform. He agreed, became a model Staffer then on.

 

YiS

[Bob White]

It should be noted that the Cub Scout Leader Book specifically states that the Cub uniform is not to be worn mixed with civilian clothing (this would include camoflage or jeans) and that it is better to not wear the Cub uniform than to wear it mixed with other apparel.

[Beavah]

Yah, BobWhite repeats da official line, which is contained in SSS's first link from scouting.org, eh? All scouting uniforms are meant to be worn as a whole according to the Insignia Guide.

 

That having been said, I'd relax a bit amethyst. First, it's worth noting that Mike Walton is just another volunteer scouter expressing his personal opinion in SSS second link. Me thinks he doth protest too much, and perpetuates some bad scoutin' myths.

 

The camo the lads wear isn't typically military camo, it's hunting camo. Round our neck of the woods, there are a lot of families who hunt, eh? Families who hunt typically buy outdoor clothing in camo patterns. Fact is, it's good-quality outdoor wear, and usually reasonably priced. Yeh aren't going to get folks to buy a second non-camo winter coat or pants for scouting. Not when a Scout is Thrifty, and not when a lot of families can't afford that kind of duplication of gear. Besides, the lads think it's cool, and it's great for capture-the-flag.

 

Now if you're talkin' indoor dress-wear for ceremonies and such, then I agree with you. Looks a lot better to have boys in full uniform if your unit can work to make it happen. If your unit values that, you should work toward it. However, if you're talkin' active-wear or outdoor-wear, the cub uniform ain't that great. If your unit values those things, they might be allowing options.

 

We've made progress on the Boy Scout uniform which your webelos can wear, though. The new uniform parts are a bit more outdoor functional, at least for warm climates. A lot of da "shirts only" uniforming was happening because the old Boy Scout uniform pants were so awful. Cub uniforms haven't caught up yet, so that might be part of what's goin' on.

 

In any event, as a Tiger leader, your role is to learn. There's quite a lot to learn about cub scouting and scouting in general, eh? File this one away, and keep learning and being open to your unit's approach to things. There's an old rule of courtesy: yeh can't criticize a group until you've first found all the things for which they should be praised.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

First lets keep in mind that the passage SSS and I refered to were not our words but those of the BSA Cub Leader handbook. So since Amethyst's question was about what is correct in uniforming it seems appropriate to know what the BSA says about non-uniform pieces being worn with the uniform. Whether you agree with the BSA's position or not does not alter what the BSA's stated position is.

 

Secondly not all clothing made in camo is is build for the durability of hunting, just as not all scout uniforms were designed for outdoor use. I think most everyone agrees that the previous Boy Scout Uniform had many features that did not lend itself to use in the outdoors.

 

What is surprising is that anyone would think that it was since the Scout handbook specifically states that the oofficial uniform was for indoor activities and formal occassions. Even more curious is that a number of leaders knowing that the uniform was not designed for outdoor wear continued to require scouts to wear it for camping.

 

If you are going to support the wearing of camo or blue jeans thats fine, but please consider not support mixing them with the official uniform. If you want to be out of uniform then be out of all the uniform.

 

Wear whats appropriate for the activity and the weather and wear it correctly. At least thats a lesson that scouts can use in the future.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[amethyst]

Well the camo is very much encouraged at indoor ceremonies. We have a committee chair and a CM that are both afraid to say anything because they do not know as much about scouting. I may be new to Tigers but I am not so new to Scouting. I was Advancement Chair for this same Pack for 3yrs and 1 yr at another Pack. My husband and I both have a at least 10 years in Scouting leadership roles. He is now a TFC counselor with my older sons Troop. We never had an issue with camo with the previous CC and CMers. They just stated that everyone shold be in full uniform and it was excepted with out question. A few of our families think it is cute for their children to be in camo so they look more like the military. They really do not care what the children feel. Also these few parents have not taken any other training than the fast track online and they will boss everyone else around. This has lead to my reason in seeking out this information so I can lead my Scouts down the correct path. Not the choose what you want and forget the rest. I want them to have pride in Scouting.

[Eagle92]

The other part of the WOW factor was that you aren't suppose to wear pistol belts, harnesses, etc as well. That would have been a major problem for me since all i culd afford was the military surplus gear I bought and/or given. When I did day hikes, I had a pistol belt with surplus canteen, poncho attached with boot blousers, compass in surplus pouch, and first aid kit/survival kit in an M-14 pouch. When I went backpacking, it was the surplus ALICE pack. i think you get the idea.

 

I was told by one Scouter at an Ordeal that cammies were a no no and that I needed to change. This was a volunteer, not a profession so I ignored him. Funny thing was he was also in cammies!

 

I think we have more important issues than what to wear at camp. Proper uniforming is one thing, but when you are on a trail, or doing manual labor like Ordeals, what's the big deal. In times past, I was usualy covered in mud and sweat anyway,so no one saw ecaxtly what you were wearing.