Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18

[TAHAWK]

 

 

The Eagle Badge is a boy's "rank" badge. Only boys wore it when I entered Scouting in 1954, although adults could still earn Eagle back then. I left Scouting for a time.

 

When I got back in 1981 only boys could earn Eagle, and the Eagle Badge was still a boy's insignia. Since at least 1981, the rule, practice and understanding has been that adult Eagles wear the knot and, on "formal Eagle occasions," may wear the medal.

 

I have never, in forty-five years in Scouting seen an adult wear the boy's Eagle Badge.

 

You are, of course, free to violate all the rules of Scouting, including the Law (Obedient) that you wish. People have been breaking rules for millennia, There will likely be consequence of one kind or another.

[qwazse]

Welcome back! I hope your return will be the personal blessing that mine has been. Just to double check, I looked at my uniform that I had from when I was a young assistant scoutmaster in the 80s, and sure enough there's my eagle badge! I knew adults weren't to wear rank patches, but nobody discussed when that transition had to be made. Evidently it wasn't during those couple of college years when I was dropping in on troop activities. By the time I was a dad ready to join the leadership, I got a new uniform, passed on the badge and purchased knots for AoL and Eagle. And that's basically how we handle things in these parts. Nobody whips out their lock-blade and asks our newest scouters to cut away the badge. But, as they get adult training and read the insignia guide themselves, they transition from badge to knot.

 

As far as the prodigious knot program and all it's intricacies, well I suppose National thinks there is more to being a scout than those three feats you mentioned, and each deserves to be part of a scouter's "totem". Sorry that bothers you. Just set aside some drawer space for all the knots you garner but won't wear because the "third world general look" is not your thing. Finally, thanks in advance for all of your service to our boys (and young women, if Venturing draws you into its wild ride!)

[Sentinel947]

Hello John! Thanks for getting re involved in Scouting! I'd argue that Eagle Scout is not the "supreme goal" of Scouting, but creating good young men of character is the goal. The process of earning Eagle Scout is certainly is part of that goal. While regulations say not to wear Eagle Rank Patch after 18, there isn't a uniform police who will come rip the patch off your pocket if you refuse to take it off. Personally I never wore my Eagle Rank patch, because I didn't receive the patch till after I was 18. As adult volunteers I believe we have a responsibility to model proper uniforms for the Scouts, even on some of the inane things. Ultimately it's not the Eagle rank patch that makes the Eagle, it's their experiences as a Scout that make the Eagle Scout who he is, and gives the award it's meaning.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Sentinel947

[SSScout]

FINALLY got the posting function to work! Tried to answer this yesterday evening....

 

Way to go, opening an old thread for reconsideration. Thank You!

No one is "removing the Eagle Badge from the uniforms of most of the Eagle Scouts" The "Badge" is not the "Square Knot" Once an Eagle, always an Eagle, but the "Badge" is for the Scout to wear. If they are a Venturer, wear it on the Green Uni. If a SeaScout, wear the Quartermaster Badge, as appropriate. . If no longer a Scout, wear the Knot on your adult uni. Share the ribboned medal with your Scoutson, when he is ready.

My Scout badges and patches are for me to reminisce about and share with my family. I would not wear them on my adult uni.

Youth awards are for the Scout. Adult award /recognitions are for the adult. I would not expect an adult to wear a merit badge sash, I would not expect a young Scout to wear the St. George Catholic Award. Would not be appropriate.

 

 

Welcome back to Scouting! You and your friends will not regret it. And welcome to the forums! I think you will add a fresh voice to our debates.

[gumbymaster]

I expect that my perspective may be a little different, as I am predominantly a cub scout leader these days. That said ...

 

My understanding is that officially, the rank badge should be replaced with the square knot at when you turn 18.

 

In practice, I think the spirit of that rule would probably permit youth members of Venture units (or Explorers as we were known when I was young) would allow you to wear the award up to 21 years old.

 

Personally, I'm not sure where to draw the line. Even most scouts and scouters probably don't realize that that knot is the Eagle Scout award (or Arrow of Light). Certianly the parents of my Cub aged youth don't know.

 

While I made the decision to remove the eagle badge and use the square knot, we had a den leader who chose to still have his eagle award rank on his uniform, and I would not have even considered correcting him on it. For our parents coming in, there is instant comfort in seeing that well known badge of achievement.

 

When I started dusting off my old uniforms to take on my new role, two of my four uniforms (two different explorer units - green uniforms 1&1, and two tan uniforms 1&1) had the Eagle badge, and two had the square knot. Most were last worn when I was 23, and a Summer Camp Program Director.

 

While the Eagle badge is a recognition of personal achievement, it is also a fantastic motivator (which is why I kept it on some of my summer camp uniforms), and and excellent recruiting tool - something the square knot just can't compete with (unless you have a full admirals' worth of them).

[qwazse]

... In practice' date=' I think the spirit of that rule would probably permit youth members of Ventur[ing'] units (or Explorers as we were known when I was young) would allow you to wear the award up to 21 years old ...

 

I see that as one of those unnecessary "perks" of venturing. And, as far as I am concerned, sufficient justification to not worry about the regulation at all for young adults.

 

If you are willing to gas your tank and spend your weekend with my boys, when legally you could be out buying some smokes and lottery tickets, I'm willing to let your badge stay on your shirt -- be the pocket tan or green.

 

And, if you are now by any definition in a boy's world an "old fart" who can still fit his decades-old uniform .. by all means keep that badge on until you wear out that shirt scouting with your boys! Need a new shirt? Then it's probably time to just sew on the knot!

 

But, let's make a deal. If you really want to keep that badge on your uniform, promise me you'll wear your Eagle medal on your lapel when your in suit and tie at formal activities like fund-raisers, graduations, and football games.

[mgood777]

I never wore the Eagle badge on my pocket. My Eagle Board of Review was a week before I turned 18. The Court of Honor was several months after I was 18. I was an Assistant Scoutmaster and promptly put the red/white/blue knot on my uniform. (For the Court of Honor, I did wear a youth uniform that I had saved for that occasion which still had the Life Scout rank on the pocket and Senior Patrol Leader badge of office, pictured in my avatar. That uniform was retired when I took it off later that day.)

 

When I worked at Philmont, most of the staff were 18+. Most of the male staffers were Eagle Scouts. Many of them wore the Eagle badge on the pocket. This was simply because that was the uniform they wore as a youth when they earned their Eagle. Most of them had probably not been active in Scouting as adults except to serve on staff at Philmont and had not seen fit to change the patch. This is a National High Adventure Base and staff are expected to set a good example. They were pretty strict about some aspects of uniform wear, but I never heard of anyone making an issue over pocket badge vs. knot.

Edited April 5, 2015 by mgood777

[Eagle94-A1]

Were the Philmont Staff in the green Explorer/Venturing uniform shirts or the tan and green shirts?  I ask because Explorers/Venturers were able to wear the Eagle patch on the pocket until 21. 

 

It was "interesting" when one of my national supply coworkers and I wore our green and grey Venturing uniforms when we worked summer camp staff. As a 19 year old Eagle, He was was legitimately allowed to wear his badge on his green shirt. Boss had a coniption fit as we MUST follow the Insignia Guide, or whatever they call it these days, and though that he MUST wear the knot.  Had to show her in the IG that yes he could wear the Eagle and his AOL until age 21 in the green shirt. She even had a conniption fit about my jambo insignia, until I showed her pics of the CSE with Jambo insignia on.

 

But when we were inthe standard khaki and green BSA uniform, we both wore our knots.

[mgood777]

Were the Philmont Staff in the green Explorer/Venturing uniform shirts or the tan and green shirts?  I ask because Explorers/Venturers were able to wear the Eagle patch on the pocket until 21. 

 

Most wore the tan shirts. You'd occasionally see someone in the dark green shirt.

 

Here's an example. This was a pic from 1987 that I posted in another thread. I was a camper that year. Our Ranger, the guy directly behind the sign, is a 19 year old staff member. You can see the Eagle badge on his pocket in the photo.

 

Edited to add: Me and guys from my troop wearing our illegal red and white striped shoulder loops that we'd worn ever since the uniforms with epaulets came out I caught some flak for those when I wore them as a staff member the following year, so I just stopped wearing the "Class A" shirt and always wore the polo-type green staff shirt. Either one was approved for staff uniform wear with the green Scout shorts.

Edited April 5, 2015 by mgood777

[CalicoPenn]

I'm surprised that Philmont staff were wearing uniforms from their home units.  When I was a staffer at Maine National High Adventure Base in the 80's, we were provided staff uniforms that had gold epaulets, the US flag, the Staff patch and a name tag - and that was it.  No knots, no CSPs (of course not, since we worked for National), no OA Lodge flaps, no other patches of any kind.  Unit uniforms were not allowed - we were employees of National - not members of units, councils and lodges.  Our registration was as National Staff - not a "summer only" camp staff unit.

[mgood777]

I'm surprised that Philmont staff were wearing uniforms from their home units.  When I was a staffer at Maine National High Adventure Base in the 80's, we were provided staff uniforms that had gold epaulets, the US flag, the Staff patch and a name tag - and that was it.  No knots, no CSPs (of course not, since we worked for National), no OA Lodge flaps, no other patches of any kind.  Unit uniforms were not allowed - we were employees of National - not members of units, councils and lodges.  Our registration was as National Staff - not a "summer only" camp staff unit.

 

Interesting. When was this?

 

All PhilStaff wore uniforms from their home units if they had them. There were some who showed up without a uniform, and female staff members who had no uniform. Most of these people just wore the staff polo shirt with the uniform shorts. If they wore the "Class A" shirt, they bought one off the rack at the trading post, hung the Philmont Staff Arrowhead from the right pocket, pinned their name tag to it, put on red shoulder loops and called it a day. We had the option of wearing either the staff shirt or the Scout uniform shirt, whichever we wanted (or whichever was clean, lol).

 

When I showed up with my red and white shoulder loops I was harassed about them until I stopped wearing the uniform shirt. (I refused to wear the red shoulder loops.) The big shots on the staff wore gold loops. Some of us thought we should all be able to wear the gold since we were employees of the "National Council" as they called it. So we were told shoulder loops should match your badge of office, if any. Red was the default color if there was nothing on your uniform to indicate branch of Scouting. Someone came up with a badge of office that just said "Employee." We speculated that we could all put them on our uniforms and wear the gold loops. No one tested that theory though to my knowledge. There also was/is a "Ranger" badge of office. It's for the person who takes care of your council camp. But those of us who were Philmont Rangers thougth it would be appropriate. Again no one actually had any to see if it would fly. When I came back for a second year on staff, all my uniforms said District Committee, so I wore silver loops.

[EDIT: There was a summer staff of about 700 people plus a much smaller full-time staff. It may have been the full-timers who got the gold loops.]

 

Here are my Ranger Training Crew pics. In the '88 pic, you can see my striped shoulder loops. In the '90 pic I'm wearing the staff shirt.

 

Philmont Ranger 1988 & 1990

Edited April 5, 2015 by mgood777

[scoutldr]

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 

[NJCubScouter]

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 

 

They never were - which I think is why mgood777 referred to them as "illegal."

[SeattlePioneer]

<<I have read that insignia intended for youth are not worn by adult members of the Boy Scouts of America, and I can agree with it for the most part with one exception...I would like to see those who earn the Eagle rank be allowed to wear the rank patch until they reach age 21.>>

 

 

 

19,  21.  Whatever.  Eagle Badge,  Life, First Class.

 

Let boys and young men take a measure of pride in their accomplishments.

 

 

At 21 perhaps I'd have a special ceremony to retire the Eagle Badge and replace it with the Eagle Knot,  Arrow of Light knot and any other knots a young man has earned by that time.

[mgood777]

 

So, at what point were striped shoulded loops part of the official BSA uniform? 

 

They never were - which I think is why mgood777 referred to them as "illegal."

 

Right, they never were.

 

Back when the uniforms with epaulets first came out, one troop in my district started wearing baby blue shoulder loops and my troop started wearing the red and white striped loops. I never owned a set of red loops until I went to Wood Badge (8 or 10 years later). The Scoutmasters of these two troops were known as rebels who ran their programs their way. They got lots of threats from council to fall into line, but they generally ignored them. They ran some of the most successful troops in the council so it wasn't like they were going to pull their charter over stuff like this.

 

When I showed up at Philmont with my red and white shoulder loops, I was told they were a no-no. I just stopped wearing the uniform shirt. I was NOT going to wear red shoulder loops with my troop number. Matter of pride. So I wore the staff shirt instead. Then a crew showed up from the other troop, with the baby blue loops. They were our closest friends/rivals. I broke out my uniform with the red and white loops while those guys were in base camp. This came to the attention of some of the Philmont higher ups, and I got a stern lecture about uniform. I went back to the staff shirt. Still not willing to wear red loops, especially while that other troop was around.

 

When I went back for a second year on staff, my badge of office said District Committee and I wore silver loops. I think I was on the District Committee when I was there the first time, but didn't have any uniforms that said that. My second year I took only District Committee uniforms, to avoid the red loops.