Eagle Scout Rank Patch wear after age 18

[Stosh]

@<3My2Eagles Wow!  Polite, appreciative thankful for forum input?  Is it any wonder he has two great Eagle Scouts for sons.  Well done dad, you must be extremely proud to have raised your sons so well.  I have no doubt the two boys fully appreciate the support and guidance you have provided for their journey in life.

[qwazse]

Regarding knots, we tell our boys to pick them up after the ceremony on their own time (and

their own dimes)!

The scout shop usually asks for proof of earning the award. The NESA card will do.

While they're at it, be sure they get the AoL knot (if they earned it) and maybe some service stars.

[Cleveland Rocks]

Thank you Col. Flagg for all of the information and opinions.  Very Helpful! ... One more question:  Where and When do the boys get the Eagle Knot? at Ceremony or just from the Troop.? Thx!!

We give the new Eagle(s) a square knot from the Troop at their ECOH, with an explanation that this is for when they turn 18 (if they haven't already), and that they wear the square knot all the time and not the medal. We also advise them to get AoL and religious award knots on their own if they earned them and they so choose to wear the knots.

 

The Troop also gives them a special Eagle Scout CSP that our council makes and sells.

 

We provide, at their ECOH, the Eagle Kit, the CSP, and square knot. The council gives them (well, their parents) a "I'm Proud of My Eagle Scout" bumper sticker. If the Scout wishes to award more Mentor pins than the one that's provided in their Eagle Kit, that's on their dime.  Same goes for the new Eagle Scout Grandparent pins.

[The Black Eagle]

After reading many of the posts about wearing Eagle Cloth rank, I feel inclined to throw my two cents into the pot. I reached the rank of Eagle back in 1990, just before my 18th birthday. Like many eagle scouts who achieved the rank of Eagle, most achieve it closer to 18. The average is 17. So many Eagles don't get to wear their patch rank at all or not very long. It is a RANK!I feel that if one is still in scouting and wearing the uniform, they ought to be able to display their highest rank achieved.

 

I find it silly that people were suggesting and comparing this desire to breaking a speed law! That is a poor analogy because the person breaking a speeding law is committing an actual crime and wanting to wear a rank that one actually achieved is completely different! Could you imagine a retired general being told that he cannot wear his 4 stars because he no longer is in active service or because he is an adult? Following rules is fine when they are actually sound rules.

 

Questioning silly rules is not a crime because that is how you get silly rules changed! Keep in mind there are rules STILL ON THE BOOKS in towns of America that say things like: "Citizens are forbidden to wear hats on Thursdays from 8am to 7pm!" So you mean to tell me that I am some criminal if I choose to question that law or dare i say, disobey it! It was a valid point of the gentleman who stated that he finds it funny that one is allowed to wear all sorts of approved do-dads on the uniform but one is not allowed to wear his RANK just because they turned 18! And no offense but many of these rules were added later! It use to be that adults could earn Eagle and through the years the BSA changes and adds things. However, think of some 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 year old Eagle Scouts that are still alive and active and being told they can't wear cloth ranks when they were allowed to when they were younger! They never agreed to these changes and why should they have to change for some rule put into place after! In addition, who is to say that the BSA will not decide 10 years from now that Adult Eagle Scouts are forbidden to wear their medals! Would the uniform police be okay with that rule? I for one would NOT be okay with that! And where do you draw the line! The BSA has now allowed gay scout masters and gay scouts and transgenders and I am completely AGAINST all that! Remember the MORALLY STRAIGHT! So before the uniform police want to act like the rest of us should just comply with all their rule changes, doesn't mean we should be so willing to do so!

Edited June 15, 2017 by RememberSchiff
added paragraphs for readability

[RememberSchiff]

Welcome to scouter.com @@The Black Eagle

[Col. Flagg]

After reading many of the posts about wearing Eagle Cloth rank, I feel inclined to throw my two cents into the pot. I reached the rank of Eagle back in 1990, just before my 18th birthday. Like many eagle scouts who achieved the rank of Eagle, most achieve it closer to 18. The average is 17. So many Eagles don't get to wear their patch rank at all or not very long. It is a RANK!I feel that if one is still in scouting and wearing the uniform, they ought to be able to display their highest rank achieved.

 

Ranks are for youth, not adults. So once you are an adult you don't wear ranks...just like you don't wear MB sashes. As an adult you are essentially a "retired" Scout and are now a Scouter (unless you are in Venturing, then you can wear your Eagle until 21).

 

To carry your analogy further, retired generals don't wear their stars, or even their uniform, after they retire. When you turned 18 you "retired" from Scouts so you wear the knot, not the rank.

[Gwaihir]

I too earned my Eagle at the zero hour before my 18th birthday.   This was due to procrastination and laziness.  I earned Life by the age of 16 and then dragged my feat on my project and 2 merit badges.  I never got to wear my Eagle patch, it's still stapled into my black case.  I have gotten to wear my Eagle medal, which is the actual award you are earning, it's the award as it was first designed.  I've worn it on formal attire (re: suit and tie), I've worn it on my uniform as an adult scouter at formal occasions.  If you didn't get to wear your patch, it's most likely due to your own procrastination as 7 years is ample time to earn the rank.  That all said, it's the knowledge, wisdom and skills you've garnered on your journey to eagle that matter, not the cloth badge or the shiny medal.  imo, the cloth patch is for the boys, we are men now.  

Edited June 15, 2017 by Gwaihir

[gumbymaster]

Other than some self-appointed individuals, there are no "uniform police" in Scouting.

 

I will admit that I kept my eagle badge on some of my my uniforms until I was no longer serving a Summer Camp Staff, at about 23.  While I am sure my attitude was I earned it, I should be able to display it, I also justified it as helping to inspire the Scouts I was teaching at Camp.  At the same time, I was in a co-ed explorer post, and on that uniform I never put on the eagle badge and instead went to the knot when I was 18, because I did not consider it fair to be so in their face to the women in the unit who were at least as skilled as I was, but could not earn the eagle.

 

When I came back to a leadership role as a Scouter/Parent, I removed the badges that were still on some old uniforms and replaced with with the knots.  One of our other Den leaders still had his eagle badge on his uniform, and even as a cub master, I felt that was his decision to make.  Again, I justified my not joining the uniform police force as that the parents and boys in his den would much more readily identify with the badge than a knot, and it provided a sense of he knows what he is doing.

 

Now, all that said ...

 

@The Black Eagle, I am concerned that the way you have expressed your distaste with the "silly rules" and all.  You are right that it does not rise to the magnitude of a speeding ticket, or anything else with the risk of life or injury to self or others.  But is an award bestowed by the BSA, and it is their right to dictate the proper way to wear it, or not, as the case may be.  Think about the intent of the rule before you dismiss it entirely.  Advocate for a policy change if you think that is appropriate.  To simply disregard the rule because you think it is silly or don't like that it diminishes your ability to tout your achievement goes against much of what that award represents.

[The Black Eagle]

Ranks are for youth, not adults. So once you are an adult you don't wear ranks...just like you don't wear MB sashes. As an adult you are essentially a "retired" Scout and are now a Scouter (unless you are in Venturing, then you can wear your Eagle until 21).

 

To carry your analogy further, retired generals don't wear their stars, or even their uniform, after they retire. When you turned 18 you "retired" from Scouts so you wear the knot, not the rank.

That is wrong! Retired generals DO wear their uniforms to ceremonies, etc. I see it all the time! I know what the rules are but many of us Eagle Scouts are talking about what we would LIKE to see changed! Are you an Eagle Scout? I ask because many here with opinions have never even achieved Eagle Scout!

[The Black Eagle]

Other than some self-appointed individuals, there are no "uniform police" in Scouting.

 

I will admit that I kept my eagle badge on some of my my uniforms until I was no longer serving a Summer Camp Staff, at about 23.  While I am sure my attitude was I earned it, I should be able to display it, I also justified it as helping to inspire the Scouts I was teaching at Camp.  At the same time, I was in a co-ed explorer post, and on that uniform I never put on the eagle badge and instead went to the knot when I was 18, because I did not consider it fair to be so in their face to the women in the unit who were at least as skilled as I was, but could not earn the eagle.

 

When I came back to a leadership role as a Scouter/Parent, I removed the badges that were still on some old uniforms and replaced with with the knots.  One of our other Den leaders still had his eagle badge on his uniform, and even as a cub master, I felt that was his decision to make.  Again, I justified my not joining the uniform police force as that the parents and boys in his den would much more readily identify with the badge than a knot, and it provided a sense of he knows what he is doing.

 

Now, all that said ...

 

@The Black Eagle, I am concerned that the way you have expressed your distaste with the "silly rules" and all.  You are right that it does not rise to the magnitude of a speeding ticket, or anything else with the risk of life or injury to self or others.  But is an award bestowed by the BSA, and it is their right to dictate the proper way to wear it, or not, as the case may be.  Think about the intent of the rule before you dismiss it entirely.  Advocate for a policy change if you think that is appropriate.  To simply disregard the rule because you think it is silly or don't like that it diminishes your ability to tout your achievement goes against much of what that award represents.

Concerned by the way I expressed my distate for the silly rules? WHATTTTTT???? Dismiss it entirely????? WHATTTTT????? Disregard the rule???? WHATTTT???? You need to look up those words in the dictionary! First, there is zero disregarding! That would suggest that I am ignoring the rule and wearing my Eagle Scout patch and I am 45 years old and not active in a troop etc. So there is zero disregarding of rules! Second, advocate for a policy change is NOT up to me, nor do I care to involve myself in such matters. Dismiss? Again, look up the word in the dictionary! To dismiss the rule would mean that I am ignoring policy and are committing the terrible act of wearing an Eagle Rank patch past 18 years of age! I would never think about committing such a terrible crime, which is up there with treason and breaking speed limit rules! Finally, silly rules? It is not silly rules, it is a rule I disagree with and that's my opinion and I stated it! The problem with snow flakes is that when anyone disagrees with them, they act like the other person is dismissing and disregarding and doing hate speech! In closing, the Boy Scouts have rules such as no adults wearing rank badges and yet let homosexuals in the BSA! So much for "Morally straight!"

[qwazse]

Well, to my knowledge, nobody got kicked out of the BSA for keeping their Eagle patch on. They found out about the insignia guide, and adjusted their uniform at their earliest possible convenience.

 

It makes no sense saying BSA's capitulation to those with permissive sexual ethics is cause to disregard its guide to insignia.

 

Regarding, snowflakes, I've found them to be deadly en masse. So, the metaphor does not have the pejorative implication you may think that it has.

[TAHAWK]

If it's not a big deal, why so much passion?

 

I tend to follow rules.

 

Scouting does not require us to love the rules.

 

Opinions differ.

 

I have an Eagle knot on one shirt.  Scouting in multiple councils, I have not gotten around to sewing knots on my other shirts -- or much beyond CSPs.  If I don't know my stuff, no patch or medal will do.  If I know my stuff, who cares?  

 

One of my cohorts this week staffing training is First Class - and twenty years a US Army Ranger - which he never mentioned. (I knew him eight years before I found out.) Did the participants figure out that he is a good source?  You betcha.  

[The Latin Scot]

I note, @@The Black Eagle (welcome by the way), that you seem to hold a great deal of resentment towards this issue, and that you seem especially zealous to make your point - lots of capital letters and exclamation points, etc. I am clear on the fact that you are against this policy (which is not as new as you seem to imply). but my question to you is -

 

why?

 

Forgive me if I come off as somewhat didactic, but are we really so concerned with the recognition, the attention, or the prestige of the Eagle rank that we are allowing the desire to be seen as an Eagle Scout trump the need to behave like an Eagle Scout? Why exactly is it so terrible that these 17 year-olds only get to wear the big flashy patch for a short time, and then have to transition to the (Heaven forbid) small, inconspicuous square knot? Does it diminish the labor and effort they put into achieving that rank? Does it deprive them of the character they built in so doing, or lessen somehow the significance of what they have done? Or are we upset because they are being deprived of the attention for having done those things?

 

I tell you now, that is not the road we want any new Eagle to travel. If a man is to be recognized as being an Eagle Scout, he should do it the real way - by being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent - and, I will add, modest. He is a good citizen, a good father and husband and worker. He helps others because it is the right thing to do, not to be seen of others. One of the most beautiful details about the story of the unknown scout (the veracity of the story being, frankly, irrelevant) is that we have no idea who he was. He never got recognized for his small good turn, helping William D. Boyce find his way through London, but it is because of him that any of us can earn the rank of Eagle in the first place. 

 

I think that if a boy turns 18 and cannot be satisfied with a little square knot to honor his achievement, he still has a lot of growing up to do, regardless of the fact that, legally, he is considered an "adult." If he still needs the attention and recognition which the big colorful youth patch brings (which, all things considered, is hardly more than that of the square knot outside of the Scouting world), then maybe he still needs to learn what it means to truly be an Eagle Scout, despite the fact that he has met the requirements. 

 

Finally, you seem to point out a lot of what you perceive as hypocrisy by bringing in other, unrelated issues and by making overly dramatic comparisons (treason, homosexual issues, etc.), as though somehow they might distract us from your real concern because of how big and controversial they are, and that by comparison your position might seem like a small and reasonable thing. Unfortunately, that kind of rhetoric only makes your position seem more extreme, and your terse and shouting replies aren't likely to help your point much. I understand that you feel strongly about this, and that is your privilege, but let's not try to tear down the whole moral fabric of the organization in our efforts to shed some light on a small issue like this.

 

You think an Eagle Scout should be allowed to wear the youth rank patch even when he is grown, though you haven't fully and gently explained your reasoning. I feel that it's both unnecessary and unwise, and I hope I have been clear as to why. Can't we continue the discussion in cool, collected language, and learn from each other, rather than resort to acerbity or angry rhetoric? By keeping to the subject at hand, we can help to understand each other's points of view, rather than intensify the hostility that can too easily mount in a discussion such as this one.

Edited June 17, 2017 by The Latin Scot

[RememberSchiff]

I tend to cut new members some slack. Let's refrain from name-calling and over passionate ranting.

Edited June 17, 2017 by RememberSchiff

[desertrat77]

To amend a previous post of mine, I took another look at my late '70s Philmont crew photo.  Three adults are wearing the Eagle patch:  the college-age ranger, my SM (probably in his mid-30s at that point), and an ASM who was about 19.

 

Bottom line:  no one cared.  It was their uniform and if they earned it they could wear it.  Or not. 

 

I wouldn't say it happened a lot, but it wasn't unusual.  In fact, I recall scouters wearing their old square green first class or star patches on their uniform.  A few old Eagles wore the knot as well as the patch.  A bit redundant but to each their own.

Edited June 17, 2017 by desertrat77