Unique Unit Numeral Patch

[Packhound]

My Troop has combined forces with another unit. We were both small (one patrol) troops and started off just doing several outings together. Since we were so small we couldn't really do the Patrol method very well.

 

This past summer we went to summer camp together with the intention of "blending" the two troops. The boys clicked well. In other words we are functioning as one troop with two separate charters. It is my hope that we will build up the two troops so that we can once again function as two separate units in a couple of years, but that may be a long shot for my unit.

 

In short, we are two troops functioning as one and have chosen to identify ourselves as "Lightning" troop. Much like units in other parts of the world identify themselves by name rather than number.

 

We are considering getting unit numeral patches (in the "new" colors) made with the name "Lightning" rather than Troop numbers.(And possibly a logo.) What is the feeling here? If we do such, can you suggest a vendor? (National supply only seems to be set up to do numerals only-they don't have a way to order alphabetically.)

[Stosh]

Just a suggestion:

 

Why not just leave the numerals alone and go with a patrol patch and flag to designate the difference between the two. As long as one is chartered as a number, I see no reason to alter the standard.

 

Go with 2 "patrols"/troops and have the boys do a combined vote for SPL if you feel one necesasry, otherwise have the two PL's just work things out in a mini-PLC.

 

This is a great idea, and gives boys in small troops the feeling of more numbers. I'm glad it is working out for you.

 

I have been pushing the patrol-method so long that our boys have no interest in having a troop designation as much as they are proud of their patrol.

 

Because of the two troops, there's no "troop" flag for the boys to carry to the flag ceremonies. Maybe one ought to put together a huge "troop" flag with Lightning designation on that and leave the two troop flags at home.

 

When in doubt, let the boys decide what they want and then back them up.

 

Stosh

 

(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Packhound]

We are functioning as one troop with one SPL. The patrols ended up being a blend of boys from both troops. The Boys selected the name "Lightning" to refer to the troop versus Troop 1 or Troop 2. We (the boys and adults) thought that we would like to save the confusion for those who aren't privy to our situation (and to celebrate our union) having ONE troop numeral patch. We discussed having the one patch at our last PLC and the only real issue seems to be -- does using a name versus a number violate any Official BSA rules or regs. regarding the uniform? (We are not concerned about uniform police, the boys are proud to be the Lightning Troop but many of us do serve as trainers for the district and council and want to set a good example.)

[Beavah]

Yah, so of course the BSA insignia guide says we use numerals. There, you've been told what's official!

 

Now, did da authors of the insignia guide anticipate your weird circumstance? Nope. If they had, maybe they would have come up with some official way to designate "temporary merger" of two units (multiply da troop numbers and divide by pi?).

 

I think that for a small change like this, if it's somethin' that da boys came up with, and are proud of, and it makes 'em interested in wearin' their uniform because they're proud of their group, it's OK, eh? Or at least go half way, and do patch with the two troop numbers separated by a lightning bolt.

 

If yeh are worried that you're goin' to be a bad example at district functions, I've found the beige velcro works fine on the new uniform shirts. Hot swappable numerals / lightning bolts are easy dependin' on where you're serving.

 

Personally, I think you're an example of creative thinkin' about small units, and your unique "numerals" might start a conversation that helps some other unit come up with a new idea for patrol method, or for mentorin' a smaller troop or whatnot. That may be a better "example" to fellow scouters than how to wear a patch.

 

As to vendors, I'm always in favor of buyin' local as a first choice, eh? Check your yellow pages for embroidery or maybe your Chamber of Commerce. After that, look for da custom badge makers that advertise in Scouting Magazine, just to support our friends, eh?

 

Takin' a step back, yeh might want to think about your merged patrols... or not. If your goal at some point is to re-separate into two units, breakin' up those mixed patrols may be hard. Yeh might want to plan for that now, or yeh might want to cross that bridge later.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White]

Half the group group should quit the unit they are in and transfer to the other unit so that you are one unit and can follow the program as it is designed. All the problems you are trying to solve by doing things incorrectlty would disappear. No new flags, no special patches, just a normal Scout Troop.

 

 

 

[click23]

Two troops in my town tried this for a while, but one ended up folding and its members transferring to the other troop.

 

Here are a few of the problem they faced:

 

- had to keep two sets of "books", everything from advancement to checking accounts.

- had to have two separate groups holding board of reviews

- had to have two scoutmasters for advancement purposes

 

[Packhound]

I realize that our situation creates new challenges, but this is about providing the best program that we can for the boys. Truth be told, my unit will probably cease to exist as a separate charter after our next charter expires. We (all of the leaders) anticipated this. The plan was to find a smooth way for the two groups to blend and keep as many of the boys involved and interested as possible. After functioning this way for 5 months we have not lost any boys and in fact, the boys have expressed a new excitement about Scouting.

 

If we are able to separate the units next year we will do so, if not we will merge the two into one unit. And in the meantime I am working with a potential CO to start a new unit.

 

My current CO after much effort to educate and reestablish raport with them doesn't see us as anything more than tenants. Although I would love to keep this troop alive, I inherited a stuggling troop three years ago and have managed to build a great core of leaders and parents (Each Scout has a registered parent either in leadership or on the Committee. This was done before the new Scout Parent initiative from national.)We just haven't been able to build the number of boys very much. We have no feeder pack, (long story, but it folded last year), few packs in our part of the county. The troop had two active boys three years ago, we have built that up to seven or eight. But now want to do what is best for the boys, not just keep a troop alive.

 

NOW BACK ON TOPIC.

What ideas do you have about the numeral patch?

[Gold Winger]

Since the number patch is a non-starter, you're supposed to wear the number of the troop that in which you're registered. Pretty simple.

 

If you're intent on this, there are inummerable patch making companies out there that will make custom patches.

 

As someone pointed out, splitting may be more difficult than the original merger. Ever try to unmix cake batter?

 

My preferred solution would be for both units to strike their colors and charter as a new unit with a new number. Then get their number patches with the lightening bolt.

[Eagle92]

Ok I admit while the Lightening Troop sounds good, and the idea of a custom patch also sounds nice, I wouldn't recommend it. Save the money for other things like jamboree, Philmont, Sea Base, or Northern Tier

 

My experience is with "melded" or "blended" troops is that one will offcially fold and merge into the other. This happened with my troop, we had a "starter" troop acting as a patrol until they could get strongetr and be independent. they had a feeder pack and great CO relations. Well my troop's CO relations broke down whent he church got new leadership which hated the BSA. Long story short my troop got permission to keep it's number and switch to the other troop's CO sicne we had longer tenure. That troop folded and merged with us. It was a win-win situation: we got a new very supprotive CO, we got a feeder pack, we got to keep our tenure and troop traditions. The CO got a very strong, established troop to go with it's pack. Almost forgot and had to add, the Pack got a bunch of den chiefs and support from the troop. Again a Win-Win situation(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[local1400]

The troop of my youth (TOMY) merged with the other troop in town in the mid-90's. A town of 9,000 people could no longer support two units. They combined the numerals so Troops 25 and 26 became 256. The charter from the TOMY, the oldest continously registered troop in the council (1912) was used for recharter with the new number. But do what your guys want and have fun. The most important thing is the boys have a troop to call their own.

[Packhound]

In all honesty, we will probably merge into one unit with charter renewal. Blending these two troops has definitely been the right decision for these boys. The idea of keeping my troop charter active for an extra year is more sentimental than anything else. We are planning to talk with the boys from my troop and if they are willing to go ahead and merge (and I suspect that they are) then we will do so at rechartering time.

 

The Lightning Troop, however, is a celebration of our coming together and the name is symbolic of our coming together. The boys want to make this a permanent part of the uniform, if possible, hence the idea of using the troop numeral patch. I am open to suggestions to carry back to the boys. BYW, this is a neckerchief wearing troop. So, we have considered that the necker may be the unique identifier.

[Bob White]

Just so you understand unless you are the institutional head of one of the chartering organizations you have no authority to merge the troops. The Charter that allows the unit to exist is between the BSA and the chartering organization and not between the BSA and the Scoutmaster.

 

The assets such as money, equipment etc, belong to the chartering organization and not the troop.

 

While you may want to go to another troop that does not mean that you can take the monney and equiupment with you or that the CO must give up their charter. They are free to find new leadership and new scouts and keep the troop going using the money and equipment that belongs to them.

 

By not following the program you are just going to create more problems for yourselves.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Trevorum]

While a unit does need a single numeric designator, I really like the idea of your "Lightening" troop identity. Run with it!

 

As a youth growing up in SoCal, we were the "Constellation" troop. Our patrols were Orion, Hercules, Draco, etc. and we had a very cool custom neckerchief. It was great for esprit de corps!

[Eagle92]

BW is right in that the CO owns all the troop equipment, even if it cam out of scout funds and not the CO's. This can be a royal pain in the butt if the CO refuses to relinquesh the money and/or equipment. Rigt now I know of 1 CO that refuses to relinquesh canoes, tents, trailer, and other equipment that scouts paid for out of their own pockets, but technically belongs to the CO. Is it fair, no, but it is the rules.

 

Fortunately most COs either don't know or don't care if they own the scout equipment, so it won't matter. When my unit switched COs the first time, since the original CO destroyed 90% of our equipment, the issue really wasn't a problem. For the second CO switch, there were concerns as the troop had replaced everything lost from the original CO, and nothing was over 2 years old. Fortunately the new IH hated scouts with a passion and told us to take everything with us when we switched to the new CO. however I bet if the IH realized how much we had in the scout account, she would have tried to take that from us when we switched COs.

[Packhound]

Just so you understand unless you are the institutional head of one of the chartering organizations you have no authority to merge the troops. The Charter that allows the unit to exist is between the BSA and the chartering organization and not between the BSA and the Scoutmaster.

 

"The assets such as money, equipment etc, belong to the chartering organization and not the troop.

 

While you may want to go to another troop that does not mean that you can take the monney and equiupment with you or that the CO must give up their charter. They are free to find new leadership and new scouts and keep the troop going using the money and equipment that belongs to them.

 

By not following the program you are just going to create more problems for yourselves."

 

These issues have all been taken care of before the blending. We can go with the blessings of the CO. AND take the equipment, funds, etc. We are even working in cooperation with the CO to do repairs to our "old" Scout hut. (Soon to become a storage building for the CO.) Therefore, we ARE following the program.