Which color of unit numbers for the new tan uniforms?

[emb021]

"Not to slam anyone here, but I find the words "transitional" and "centennial" somewhat misleading. Does this mean that this uniform is temporary, and that another one is already on the horizon, prehaps to be used after the centennial celebration is completed? (that was a rhetorical question, buy the way)

 

I realize these are BSA buzz words, but can't we just call it the (new) uniform?"

 

Well, for me I fully understand what is intended by both, even if others do.

 

"Centennial". National is just try to tie it in with the upcoming centennial anniversary of scouting. So its not just the 'new uniform', its the 'new Centennial uniform' (tm © ) Sort of rolling something new as part of it all. To me, its clearly the new Boy Scout uniform going forward. Nothing temporary about it, any more then any previous uniforms have been 'temporary'.

 

"Transitional". We've all discussed this in other threads. With BSA uniforms, its always been the policy that when a new uniform is rolled out, you do NOT mix and match the uniform parts ('parts' means shirt, pants, belt, hat, socks, NOT insignia). This meant if you wanted to get the new uniform, you were supposed to get the whole shebang. Which is costly. So something different this time. First off, the uniform is not a radical revamp (as compared to the change from the 'Oscar De La Rente' uniform and its predicessor). And secondly, we are allowed to go to the new uniform in bits and pieces (get the new shirt, say, then later get things like the belt, pants, hat, etc). Much easier on the pocketbook that way.

 

[evmori]

Hey parts is parts & if you can MIX and MATCH anything from the old with the new that means anything!

[John-in-KC]

docwrm,

 

Please cite the BSA pub from which you make your claim that the Centennial uniform is transitional in nature and that you can use old insignia on it or mix/match current parts and previous parts with it.

 

I've not heard that one.

 

BTW, SFAICT this uniform is not transitional. This is the next generation of Scout uniform. It's just that all the literature has not caught up with Supply Corporations' distribution channels yet.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[emb021]

John-in-KC: To answer your question, the first PDF flier on the uniform clear stated that parts were mix and match. I do not take that to mean insignia is mixed, but that parts (pants, shirt, belt, hat, socks) can be.

 

Read the article on the new uniform in the current issue of Scouting magazine (here it is on-line: http://www.scoutingmagazine.org/issues/0809/a-design.html)

 

Quote: "And the uniform items are transitional, so you can mix and match the present and the future."

[Beavah]

And just to add another fly to the ointment...

 

I was told today by a senior person in Supply that they were "encouraging" troops to swap out all the red shoulder loops on old uniform shirts immediately for the green ones. Primarily as a mechanism for helpin' troops (and Scouting) look more uniform.

 

O'course, it also may sell a few more loops in da short term.

 

B

 

[artjrk]

I don't get why there is SO much debate on this. New shirt-new insignia, Old shirt-old insignia. You can wear old pants w/ new shirt and visa versa. The only exception I could see is having the Troop switch out the Red tabs for the green ones even on old shirts. The same for the Numbers. It allows for a more consistent "new" look across the Troop. Also this allows those short on $ to match those that can afford the new. There were slight color differences even within the old uniform.

[Lisabob]

About the red #s, here I think our unit is likely to just ignore national for a bit. You see, last winter before word of the new uniform came out, we custom ordered from national supply division a bunch of unit # patches with all 3 numerals on the same patch. We have probably 50 of these and are not about to waste them. A scout is thrifty. If someone would like to reimburse our troop for this cost, then maybe we'll reconsider. Til then, oh well.

 

OK so since this has morphed into a "new uniform" thread, I want to ask a slightly off-topic question.

 

About those pants...can the lighter weight ones be purchased custom fit, as was the case with the old pants? I ask because, after trying on the unisex mediums and larges, I find that neither fits me right. (Grumble. They might fit, if they made pants cut for women. The unisex idea is just dumb.)

 

 

[Docrwm]

John-in-KC writes

"docwrm,

Please cite the BSA pub from which you make your claim that the Centennial uniform is transitional in nature and that you can use old insignia on it or mix/match current parts and previous parts with it.

I've not heard that one.

BTW, SFAICT this uniform is not transitional. This is the next generation of Scout uniform. It's just that all the literature has not caught up with Supply Corporations' distribution channels yet."

 

REPLY:

Sorry, I didn't know there was going to be a quiz. Seriously, the Uniform Police thing is getting REAL, REAL, old - fast.

 

I stated several places, very clearly, that I spoke directly with Tico Perez at a training on Saturday. Its Mix-and-Match - PERIOD. The updated uniform guides are not out yet, are they? When they come out, if they are different I will read them and comply. Until then, I'll go by a) the Supply Division flier in PDF AND direct answers to my questions from a National Commissioner.

 

If you still have a problem then I respectfully suggest that you cite a publication that is current that says otherwise if you want to play Uniform Cop.

 

Thanks.(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[John-in-KC]

No doc, I simply asked that you cite your source. I see the transitional words in Scouting Magazine now. It's going to be interesting when I see the uniform guide next spring to see what it says.

 

BTW Who is Tico Perez?

 

Lisa: Agreed. Money wasted is a bad thing. That's being pragmatic, particularly if you bought them from National Supply. They should have discouraged a large order at the time.

 

(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[nolesrule]

Tico Perez is the new National Commissioner.

[Eagle92]

Here's my $.02 worth on the numbers; whoever made that decision A) is not a volunteer and has not worked with them, B) has not worked in either a scout shop or distributorship where the customer buys the uniforms, and C) didn't realize that Cub Scouts and Venturers still use the red so people will continue using red with the centennial uniform.

 

 

Let's face it we volunteers here the most complaints about the cost of uniforms. And how many parents buy all new insignia when they their bear goes into Webelos, or their Scout outgrows their uniform? I know that my mom took off all the insignia off my blues and put in on my ODL when I became a Webelos and got the ODL becasue I outgrew the blues. Also when I needed a new ODL as a Scout, I took off all my patches and placed them on the new uniform. So I am sure that we will be hearing complaints from parents about this.

 

Also from a scout shop and distributorship perspective, this is now more inventory I must carry. Let's face it most distributorships do not have alot of room to display the merchandise. And at the national scout shop I worked at, since we didn't have alot of space to display merchandise, we were constantly rearranging sections of the store to squeeze in the latest must display. It seemed like once a month we had to do some rearranging.

 

Finally If CS and Venturers are still authorized to wear red numbers, why make a separate issue patch? Unless they bring back the Blue and Gold numbers for Cubs and make Green and Yellow numbers for Venturers I think the new number will go away when more complaints are received.

 

Then again if they make the CS numbers navy and White, they can then bring back Sea Scout numbers!

[WarrenW]

Well, I guess everyone can just blame me for this whole thread and confussion! haha I just posted asking what the proper color of insignia is for the new shirts. We sure did get alot of feedback on it! I don't think anyone is going to convince everyone else of what to do. I just like to follow the BSA guidelines on everything so based on replies here, I just changed my red numbers and trained badge to the green ones on my Cub Scout tan leader shirt. Next month I get my woodbadge beads!

 

Warren

 

[emb021]

"Then again if they make the CS numbers navy and White, they can then bring back Sea Scout numbers! "

 

Actually, the Sea Scout numbers never went away. You can still get them from National Supply.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Emb

Your right National still makes them. I forgot that. My old ship, whose CO was the council, used Ship's Stores instead of supply because they could get them as an all in one patch, and faster than ordering them from national.

 

Also the scout shops that I'm familiar don't carry them.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[chikara]

Nationals stance on the new numbers is as follows: When a khaki uniform is sold from the nationl website or from a Nation Scout Shop green numbers are to be sold with the uniform. This includes Boys scouts, webelos and leaders.. Red & white numbers are not to be sold with a new centennial uniform..

 

As a national employee, this is what was dictated to me by my superiors.. As of August 15th, all red BS loops were pulled from the shelves as well..

 

There are sticklers that will insist that they will NEVER wear the new colors.. This proves nothing except for their level of stubborness!

 

The reason Boy scouts went with red loops in the first place was due to a printing error.. Back in the day when Oscar DeLarenta designed the uniform and the loops were added, BSA published a document stating that red loops were to be worn while green was to be worn by venture/explorer scouts. This was a MISPRINT! Instead of retracting all the literature that was distributed, they decided to go with it..

 

Move on! Who care what the colors are.. We are in this for the boys! Arent we?