Scout Shops directed to destroy all old red based patches

[Docrwm]

I was just at my Scout Shop picking up an old style shirt before my size is gone. Tried to get a Red & Tan "Trained" patch to go with the Red Numerals as I am a CS DL NOT a BS volunteer. My friend at the Scout Shop told me that they were "directed to destroy all red based patches other than the CS unit numerals".

 

Another instance of Boy Scout centric thinking by the Professionals IMHO. Sorry but I will be wearing my Red Unit numbers to match the boys and BSA seems to be allowing the red numerals to continue for the time being. I think that the Red & Tan "Trained" patch is both larger and actually matches the old uniforms colors and CS insignia better.

 

What ever happened to "Thrifty"???

 

Sorry for the venting but it just seems that every time I turn around CS's are an afterthought when we have to deal with National.(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[nldscout]

Odd, I called my scout shop and they know nothing of any directive such as this

[FScouter]

The old tan uniform worn by den leaders is discontinued. There's no reason to continue stocking insignia for the old uniform. The new uniform uses the green patch.

 

The red numbers are for the blue Cub Scout uniform,which is not discontinued. "Trained" patches are not used on the blue uniform.

[emb021]

"The red numbers are for the blue Cub Scout uniform,which is not discontinued. "Trained" patches are not used on the blue uniform."

 

The red numbers are ALSO for the green Venturing uniform, which is not discontinued. "Trained" patches ARE for use on the green uniform.

 

 

 

[evmori]

Isn't it permissible to still wear the old uniform? And why would the BSA destroy those patches? I thought a Scout was to be thrifty??? Nice example!

[Docrwm]

I know I'm new but it seems to me that some folks ALWAYS see BSA and their directives as perfect.

 

The term I used is "Thrifty". Destroying thousands of patches that are perfectly good - particularly since they did not run out of "Old" BS uniform shirts yet - is just plain WASTEFUL.

 

For those who checked with their Scout Shop - can you get me a couple? Ours had 0 on hand. I asked and both the manager and my friend told me the same story. They were "directed" to destroy them. They had a couple of score of them last week when I was there and 0 today. I believe them when they tell me what they were directed to do.

 

As for the CS issue - I'm not a Boy Scout, I'm a Cub Scout Adult Leader. My uniform will have the same numbers as my boys. Sorry, but the other doesn't make any sense outside the "bottom line" perspective. I wear Blue tabs on my shoulders, a Den Leader Patch with Blue background and yellow lettering, etc.(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[Gold Winger]

" "Trained" patches ARE for use on the green uniform."

 

Venturing has a different trained patch.

 

"The old tan uniform worn by den leaders is discontinued. "

 

What about the hundreds of thousands of leaders that already have the old uniform?

[FScouter]

"As for the CS issue - I'm not a Boy Scout, I'm a Cub Scout Adult Leader."

 

The adult leader uniform, both for Boy Scout leaders AND Cub Scout leaders, is changed. The NEW uniform uses the new insignia. The old uniform is still perfectly good and there is no need to get a new one. If old insignia is indeed being recalled, I'd guess it would be to avoid having folks wearing the new uniform with old insignia.

[GMitch]

FScouter said:

"If old insignia is indeed being recalled, I'd guess it would be to avoid having folks wearing the new uniform with old insignia."

 

Actually, National Council wants people who wear the old uniform to wear it with new insignia. This is made semi-clear on page 48 of the new Scouter magazine where it states:

 

"And also the uniform items are transitional, so you can mix and match the present and the future."

 

I originally thought old went with old and new with new. I planned on using my Centennial indoors and my old style outdoors and keeping it the same as it has been. I am changing my old uniform over to the new unit numerals and trained patch however. This will make units with old and new uniforms look more uniform, so I think it is a good idea. I think they could have been more clear on it, and perhaps addtional information is still forthcoming.

 

One thing that is interesting is I had 2 new interpreter strips made and asked for one to be red/tan and one green/tan. I'm guessing that since they are worn over the BSA which is still red, they sent me two red ones. It appears they are not going to make them in the green, and I'd guess the same is true for Varsity or Venture strips.

 

[Docrwm]

GMitch wrote: "One thing that is interesting is I had 2 new interpreter strips made and asked for one to be red/tan and one green/tan. I'm guessing that since they are worn over the BSA which is still red, they sent me two red ones. It appears they are not going to make them in the green, and I'd guess the same is true for Varsity or Venture strips."

 

Honestly, we shouldn't be having to guess. What your response, and many others on the new uniforms plus the different information many have gotten from BSA employees at the Scout Shops, indicates is that BSA rushed this out without completely thinking it through - or at least that is what it looks like to me. The Uniform guides are coming out AFTER the uniforms? Who managed that? This whole mess has made me wonder if folks in Tx remember the Be Prepared and a Scout is thrifty, etc. aspirational statements we present to the boys?

 

I saw the ad in Boys Life that says that the new uniform is "transitional" and can be mixed and matched. That's NOT what I've been told here on these lists by some or the impression that is held by the volunteers with whom I've spoken.

 

I ordered some "old" trained patches online. They cost me about a quarter more, with shipping, then they would have if National had not directed their destruction at the Scout Shop(s). I will not be putting them onto "new" shirts but onto new "old" shirts. Why? Well, for one the new shirts don't fit me - at all - because they appear to be sized differently. That's my solution until v2 of the "new" uniform AND the uniform manual are out.(This message has been edited by docrwm)

[Eagle92]

A couple of things. 1. Please don't confuse a council's "scout shop" with a nationally owned and run scout shop. The technical term for a council shop is a distributorship and they can basically do as they please, i.e. place a sale on discontinued merchandise, keep older patches, etc. That's because national sold them the merchandise and the distributor is now the owner of it. basically it's just like if a local, non Scouting shop, i.e. JC Penny, was selling you the stuff. They will keep it until it's gone.

 

National scout shops will have the most up to date stuff and will discard stuff following National's directives. I know as I threw out a lot of Garfield stuff way back when. Since national owns the shop and merchandise in it, they can do as they please.

 

2)Look to distributorships for the older stuff. I know that I can still get red loops, old trained insignia and shirts from the distributor since it's their stock and national will not reimburse them since it's discontinued. heck If i wanted I could get a Tiger Cub Coach patch from the local store.

 

3) Don't know why national had this paranoia against red. Does someone not like the color? Or are they concerned abotu the international implications? When I did the European Camp Staff Program, people were surprised thet the BSA used red as it symbolized communism over there.

 

 

[frank10]

I feel sorry for the folks at Robert Kaufman fabric http://www.robertkaufman.com/fabrics/designers/boy_scouts_of_america/

 

They printed the fabric in the old colors. My wife was going to order a load of it for her company for resale but not worth it now until they come out with new designs.

We even registered scoutfabric.com and scoutfabrics.com ... Oh well.

[Docrwm]

Thanks for clarifying the distinction between a Council Shop and a Nationally owned and run Shop. In this instance, it would seem its a Nationally owned one as they stated they had received a directive to destroy the old patches.

 

I ordered the old trained patches elsewhere at a VERY nominal extra charge.

 

Lots to like about the new uniforms. Nice new belts that seem much more functional. Better materials for use in the field. Socks that will reduce foot injuries in the field. Etc.

 

Just wish the rollout had been more thought out and planned better, particularly for those of us associated with CS programs.

[emb021]

"" "Trained" patches ARE for use on the green uniform." "

 

"Venturing has a different trained patch."

 

No we don't. Venturing has always used the 'old' "Trained" patch that everyone else has been using. (you know, the red boarded one)

 

""The old tan uniform worn by den leaders is discontinued. " "

 

"What about the hundreds of thousands of leaders that already have the old uniform? "

 

The old tan uniform has been discontinued for EVERYONE.

 

However, you can ALWAYS wear the old uniform. ALL old uniforms are still official. Always have been.

 

 

[emb021]

"I was just at my Scout Shop picking up an old style shirt before my size is gone."

 

Ok.

 

"Tried to get a Red & Tan "Trained" patch to go with the Red Numerals as I am a CS DL NOT a BS volunteer."

 

What does being a CS DL have to do with which Trained patch you wear? The old Trained patch (red and tan) are for the old style shirts. The new Trained patch (green and tan) are for the new centennial uniform.

 

"My friend at the Scout Shop told me that they were "directed to destroy all red based patches other than the CS unit numerals". "

 

Am a little suspicious of that statement. I visited my local Scout Shop (run by National) and the only old item they had pulled from the shelves were the red loops. I even chatted with the person there about that. Both the old and new numbers and trained strips were available for sale. (I even had to asked about the new trained strips, as they weren't out on the shelves, only the old ones.)

 

Again. The old numbers and trained strips are for the old tan uniform, Cub scout uniforms, AND Venturing uniforms. The new numbers and trained strips are for the new centennial uniforms.

 

"Another instance of Boy Scout centric thinking by the Professionals IMHO."

 

Uh, how so?

 

"Sorry but I will be wearing my Red Unit numbers to match the boys and BSA seems to be allowing the red numerals to continue for the time being."

 

The BSA is allowed the red numberals to continue for the cub scout AND Venturing uniforms.

 

If you are wearing the new uniform (which you can), you should be wearing the new unit numbers and trained strip. What does the color of the numerals on the boys' uniforms have to do with the ones you wear? When Cub Scouts were rolled out, the cub scouts wore yellow on blue community strips, and blue on yellow unit numbers, whereas the adult male cub scout leaders wore the tan scout uniform with red on khaki community strips and white on red numbers. The color matching of insignia is based on the uniform you are wearing, NOT on what others are wearing.

 

"I think that the Red & Tan "Trained" patch is both larger and actually matches the old uniforms colors and CS insignia better."

 

Uh, yes, the red & tan trained patch is larger. Don't necessarily agree that it 'matches' the old uniform colors or CS insignia any better.