OA Flap Question

[Twocubdad]

This question is coming from #1 son:

 

Our lodge produces and sells commemorative flaps for all sorts of special occasions from NOAC to Jamboree to the camp dog had puppies.

 

Is it acceptable for an OA member to wear a flap commemorating an event he did not attend? How about for an event he attended but was held before he was in the OA?

 

I don't recall seeing this in any literature, so it may be more a question of etiquette.

[emb021]

Would it be appropriate for a scout to wear an event patch he didn't attend? How about for an event he attended before he became a scout?

 

 

The purpose of such commemorative patches (NOAC flaps and Jamboree flaps) are to recognize those members of the lodge who attended those events. There is no 'ruling' on this, because I think most would understand that if we didn't attend those events (or attend those events while a member of the lodge) it would be inappropriate to wear them.

[John-in-KC]

If they're sold to raise funds (vice identify participants), I'd say he can wear 'em.

[croushorn]

Just out of curiosity, I would ask him why he wants to wear a patch to an event he didnt attend? He may have a very good reason. I wouldnt stop it.

 

I have guys wearing flaps we issued for last NOAC as a fundraiser, but they didnt attend. Seems a little odd, but its a flap from the lodge. So why not?

 

Actually I do wear a flap on my shirt from our lodge that was issued before I was tapped out, back in the day. Reason is it was given to me by someone when I finished my Ordeal that I had a great deal of respect for.

 

[prairie]

Is he ready for somebody to ask him why they don't remember him being at that event?

 

I could wear a couple of Red Flannel awards from when I was a kid, but one is still on my old uniform and I won't touch that, the other seems to have gotten lost with the sleeping bag it was sewn to, maybe this year it will be cold enough at the Klondike Derby.(This message has been edited by prairie)

[Eagle92]

I would have to agree with the Load Snoring bear, find out why he wants to wear it as there may be a reason for it. My current lodge does not issue Ordeal flaps, only Brotherhood and Vigil, and flaps are restricted in that you have to do 7 hours of cheerful service to a council camp. So we have lots of folks wearing NOAC fundraiser flaps, older lodge flaps, and conclave flaps they didn't attend etc.

 

I know about national doing away with the individual honors, but our SE said it's ok to continue with the practice until the current supply of flaps is exhausted. Between just restocking before the update came out, and having the flaps restricted (which national only suggests we do away with at the moment0, it will be another 3-5 years before we will issue flaps out when people get their Ordeal, besides a new SE or the ECM changes their mind which hasn't happened every time a youth has brought up the issue for the past five years.

[croushorn]

We are actually trying to resurrect the patch trading in our lodge, been lost over the years due to past Advisors that didnt do much with it. Speaking of that, starting to see some NOAC fundraisers around

Anytime we can get a kid talking about flaps, he is talking about OA, our lodge, our history. Some kids wear different flaps because they glow in the dark, change colors in the sun, because they just like them. As long as it isnt a spoof and it gets them talking OA & Scouting weve done a good thing, right??

 

[BrotherhoodWWW]

I'd say go ahead and wear it as long as his lodge does not have any rules against him wearing it. Some lodges have restricted patches for awards. My lodge gives a special flap for our Lodge Service award that can only be worn by those that have received the award. Special run event patches are usually only sold to those attending prior to the event and sometimes also for a specified legnth of time after the event. Many are meant for trading and some are meant to be used as a fund raiser.

 

Bottom line is to check with a lodge officier or adviser to see if there are any restrictions.

[OldGreyEagle]

And here, based on the thread title, I thought there was some sort of argument or dispute going on in the OA

[scoutldr]

What, us argue? Surely you jest!

[acco40]

Some patches are used solely to mark an event - such as camporee patches. Some are a mix - like OA flaps. My OA flap commemorates the World Championship that the Detroit Pistons won in 2004. I wear it on my uniform and feel no guilt that I have never been a member of the Detroit Pistons organization. So, Twocubdad, if your son wants to wear the OA flap of his choice and he is a current member of the OA have him go ahead - afterall, he didn't have puppies did he?

[croushorn]

I've got one - why did national do away with individual honors? Oh yeah... we're all Arrowmen... we're all equal, aren't we... kumbya....

[Gold Winger]

"My OA flap commemorates the World Championship that the Detroit Pistons won in 2004. I wear it on my uniform and feel no guilt that I have never been a member of the Detroit Pistons organization."

 

However, you should feel guilt for using your uniform as a billboard to advertise a multi-zillion dollar corporation.

[CalicoPenn]

Well that's a first - until I read this thread I had never heard of a Lodge that didn't issue Lodge flaps to Ordeal members. Lodge flaps indicate membership in a Lodge - what incentive is there to be a member of a Lodge if you don't have a Lodge flap to announce to your fellow Scouts and Arrowmen that you are a member of a Lodge. Not that there's anything wrong with this approach, it's just curious is all.

 

My home lodge restricted Lodge flaps - you could receive two, and only two, in your lifetime - you received one as an Ordeal member and one as a Brotherhood member (I still have both of mine). The Lodge had strict policies about trading the Lodge flap - if you traded it, you were removed from the membership rolls of the Lodge for life - no appeal, no ifs, ands or buts. When members of the Lodge were away at multi-council "events" (such as Grants Pilgrimage in Galena, Illinois) they were warned not to wear their Lodge flaps for the weekend, especially if they were on snaps or velcro (which many were, if folks had multiple uniforms) - there were so-called "Scouters" who would try to snatch the Lodge flap right off a Scout's shirt, though they were rarely successul as nearby Scouters would be quick to grab the offending party if he managed to get the flap. One Scouter ended up in jail for the rest of the weekend after taking a lads flap, and ripping the pocket flap it was sewed to right off the shirt only to be found eating lunch in a restaurant later by the Scout (who of course, was quite upset) who pointed out the thief to one of his Assistant Scoutmasters, who also happened to be an FBI agent. I wish I could have been there to witness the scene, but the tale told that night at our campfire (our Troop shared a campsite that year with our neighboring Troop who happened to be the Troop with an FBI agent ASM) of an Assistant Scoutmaster (in full uniform) marching up to the so-called Scouter, showing him his ID, and announcing he was under arrest, in a very crowded restaurant, was vivid enough. The Scout got his flap back - and a new shirt (compliments of the Galena Chamber of Commerce).

 

The Lodge resisted the call to unrestrict the flap for quite a long time, then in a show of compromise, issued a "Trading Flap" that was quite different from the "Real Flap" and was unrestricted. The trading restrictions are a thing of the past now, but the flap is slightly different now that the mandatory Fleur de Lis was added (the first time it was added, it was put in a rather unfortunate position - right behind, and under, a certain flying waterfowl's rear end - that became a very limited edition patch). One year, the Lodge issued a Winter Banquet lodge flap - only those who attended the Winter Banquest that year received one - one only - extra stocks were destroyed - publically, in a burn barrel in the parking lot that night. Now, the Lodge has joined many other Lodges and seems to issue a patch for just about any event - including the camp dog having puppies.

 

Our neighboring Lodge issued a new Lodge flap every year, but the only way to get it was to do your Ordeal or Brotherhood in that year - you could tell when an Arrowman became an Ordeal member or Brotherhood member of the Lodge based on the Lodge flap he was wearing. That Lodge also had a generic, all purpose Lodge flap too - for tranfers in, and trading, or for extra uniforms. I received the generic flap the year I did my CIT at that Council camp (they did the bulk of their callouts and Ordeals during camp (two week sessions - used "luxury" buses to get people to camp) and since I was an Arrowman, they made me a temporary member of their Lodge so I could help out with the ceremonies - though I think it was really an excuse so that I had one of their Lodge flaps on my uniform and not one of my home Lodge's flaps (I was their first out of council CIT and they didn't want to bring any more attention to it than they needed to, especially since I ended up staying the whole summer and not just my two week hire period).

 

Ok - sorry - long story - I just get to reminiscing sometimes - to the topic, I'd say, if the Lodge flap in question is for the OA member's Lodge, then yes, go ahead and wear it, even if it is historical in nature - though I'd check with the Lodge to see if they had any restrictions on when a member could wear the flap (I mentioned the winter banquet flap we issued - it could be worn until that years Spring Ordeal weekend - then it had to be removed and either the "real" flap or the "trading" flap had to be worn - it wouldn't be appropriate for an Arrowman to wear it as his Lodge flap now).

 

Calico

[Twocubdad]

Thanks, guys. This was somewhat of an exercise in having my son find an answer for himself.

 

He did attend the last Jamboree, he just wasn't an OA member at the time. He is now. I don't any problem with him wearing the flap.

 

I have another Scout in the troop who is wearing the same flap, but didn't attend Jambo. My advice for him would be not to wear the flap, but he hasn't asked. It's not like he's wearing an Eagle he bought on Ebay.

 

I think in both cases, it's just a cool flap that they like.