Merit badge sash + OA sash

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually I am surprised no one said that ursus snorous roarus was wrong and that BobWhite should teach a kid how to teach a kid to tie a knot, there I feel better

 

[NeilLup]

In this vein, I have had a question about the Position of Responsibility "Troop OA Representative."

 

Arguably, during the entire time that the he is performing this POR, he is performing OA service and representing the OA. Does that mean that the Troop OA representative whenever in uniform should be wearing his OA sash and, per the official uniform guidelines, should never be wearing his merit badge sash?

 

Not saying this should be the case, but just wondering if, in effect, the Troop OA Representative is always "on duty" as an OA member and representative and should be uniformed accordingly with OA sash?

[Gold Winger]

" BobWhite should teach a kid how to teach a kid to tie a knot"

 

Why? Shouldn't it be a Scout teaching a kid how to tie a knot?

 

 

[FScouter]

Well Neil, that is a very good point. Notwithstanding the impeccable analysis by Jet, I do think folks first decide what they want to do, then look for something in the books to support their decision. Resulting in these indignant defenses of position.

[croushorn]

Jet agreed with your & BWWWs suppositions! But unfortunately they are just that. If the argument is about the wording is the wording is the wording then it is what it is, as you said in your last sentences. To me, and Ill take heat for this, I feel this is an area that we can relax some of the dos and donts for the benefit of the boys. Use at your own discretion.

OGE I am too! But mebee I missed it as that little squelch function is pretty effective.

Neil we dont have our OA Rep wear his sash at normal troop functions. But at the RT and otherwise, yes, he wears his sash.

GW good point, but sneaking one in here and there is well worth it. Whod imagine something so gratifying can come from something so simple.

 

[acco40]

This is an all too familiar process with this forum. A poster asks a question, an educated response is given, some call the response "bookish", "pompous" or other such things because they don't agree with it and then the fur flies.

 

One should not wear any BSA sash on one's belt. One should not wear an OA sash unless it is an OA event.

 

Now, I attended a Webelos Crossover ceremony where some of the Webelos scouts were crossing over into our troop and some to another. I attended as a "receiving" Scoutmaster. The Scouts from the other Boy Scout Troop all wore their OA sashes on their shoulders and their merit badge sashes folded on their belt. Of course, I said nothing to them. It was probably a troop tradition or following some instruction an adult gave them. Regardless, it is incorrect.

 

Some individuals, like myself, are very conscious of proper uniforming. Numerous times, I've been asked about the correct way to wear a patch for example and when I give to be what I perceive to be the correct answer I'm chided because the asker doesn't agree with it. At a recent Eagle COH, three Scouts, one 18, two 19, wore their uniform with their Eagle rank badge. When asked, I said, no, that was improper uniforming. As adults, they should not wear patches indicating rank. I was told that was stupid, the kids should be proud to wear their Eagle badge. I explained the Eagle knot but still, no desire to comply.

 

Even my son is guilty. When he earned the Paul Bunyan award he was proud. He asked me where it went on his uniform. I stated that it didn't go on his uniform but could go on his backpack, troop jacket, etc. Well, he saw another scout from another troop wear it above his left pocket so voila, he put it there too.

 

We forget that these kids emulate what they see. Why not, as adults, try to let them see the correct uniform instead of what we want.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Gold Winger]

One place where I might turn a blind eye is at a Eagle COH for an 18 year old eagle. Let him wear his patch for his day of glory and then put the knot on. Yeah, it's not the rules but . . . dat's life.

[LCScouter]

ecco40

 

You stated "At a recent Eagle COH, three Scouts, one 18, two 19, wore their uniform with their Eagle rank badge. When asked, I said, no, that was improper uniforming. As adults, they should not wear patches indicating rank."

 

Did you mean to say SCOUTERS?

 

If they were youth members in the BSA (Venture??), they of course would wear their Eagle Badges.

 

If they were registered as Adults (Assistant Scoutmaster??), then the Eagle square knot would be in order.

[Bob White]

"If they were youth members in the BSA (Venture??), they of course would wear their Eagle Badges."

 

If they were 18 and 19 they could not have been Boy Scout Youth, they are too old and should wear the knot or medal.

 

If they are Venturers they would wear the knot or medal. The same for Sea Scouts. The patch is for Youth Boy Scouts Only.

[Eagle92]

BW,

When did this policy change in reference to not wearing Eagle badge on the Venturing uniform. I know that when I left supply division in 2002, a Venturer (not a Sea Scout) could still wear the Eagle Badge on their uniform, since if they had earned at least First Class before becoming a Venturer, they could still work on BS rank. This was advancement policy, and in the insiginia guide. My part-time scout shop clerk, preferred to wear a Venturing uniform with his Eagle Badge that he paid out of pocket, instead of the issued leader uniform with knots, because he could show off his well earned Eagle badge better.

[Bob White]

My mistake,

The Rank Patch would be worn on the Venturing Youth Uniform, the knot or medal on the Sea SCout Uniform

[shortridge]

"It is my opinion as a currently serving OA Adviser..."

 

I don't mean this as criticism, but I'd just like to point out that the term "currently serving OA Adviser" might have more significance or weight with some clarification.

 

There's no such thing as a generic "OA Adviser," unless you consider all Scouters to be advisers to the youth leaders and members - but as a position, it doesn't exist.

 

There are advisers for publications editors and ceremonies teams, lodge chiefs and elections committees, chaplains and chapters, and a whole lot more.

 

As an example, I'd give the statement of an adviser to a lodge uniforming committee (if there were such a thing) a lot more credence on this issue than I would an adviser to the chapter secretary.

 

That said, the Insignia Guide and OA Handbook both seem pretty clear, and non-contradictory on this subject. Can't wear 'em both at the same time.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Shortridge, there are some advisor positions that are expressly detailed in the OA literature. Lodge Adviser, Lodge Staff Adviser, Chapter Adviser, and Associate Advisors. There are position patches available for Lodge Advisor, Chapter Advisor, Associate Lodge Adviser, and Associate Chapter Advisor. These are ones that I know for certian about. There may also be one for staff advisor but I'm not sure. Those are the only ones I've seen for advisors at the Lodge or Chapter level. There are also ones for Section, and I think region and National but I'm not certain. In my Lodge all adults are not advisers. They do not attend LEC meetings, although they would be welcome.

 

On my district shirt I have Associate Chapter Adviser position patch which will likely be replaced soon to just Chapter Advisor due to some restructering within our Lodge.

[shortridge]

Shortridge, there are some advisor positions that are expressly detailed in the OA literature.

 

Right, and that was precisely the point I was trying to make. There is no generic "OA Adviser" position; each is specific to the youth member you're advising. Even a lodge adviser is substantially different from a chapter adviser.

 

As a further (but poor) example: A Scoutmaster and Cubmaster are both Scout "masters," but no one would group them together.

 

# # #

 

Point of inquiry, for the legalists out there: Since the adviser position draws its position-ness from the youth officer (lodge chief, chapter chief, committee chairman, etc.) should advisers to vacant posts still be considered advisers?

[fgoodwin]

I thought this was a simple issue, but like many "simple" things in BSA, it can be made complex by those who don't like the obvious answers:

 

(1) Sashes are never worn over a belt -- those who do will have a hard time finding anything official and in writing that authorizes this.

 

(2) MB and OA sashes are never worn at the same time -- ditto my comment above.

 

(3) OA sashes are worn only at OA functions and other functions when the member is rendering service in an OA role, not to show "pride" or membership in OA.

 

This website isn't official, but its a pretty good summary nonetheless:

 

http://www.citilink.com/~blkeagle/sashes.htm