Merit badge sash + OA sash

[Gold Winger]

I quoted the 1965 version of the OA handbook. So sometime after that they said, "Go ahead wear the sash for special occasions" and later changed their minds.

 

I wait with bated breath for the official word from national.

[gcnphkr]

If the paragraph had contained only the first sentence then I would agree with you. But that last sentence, "This is to be done only when members need to be identified for rendering special services" makes it clear that it is only to be worn when there is a need to identify the members because they are serving in a special way. The antecedent of "this" is "[wearing the sash at] special Scout functions such as courts of honor". The statement prohibits the wearing of the sash when special service is not being given.

[Bob White]

Didn't jet526 give the "official word from national" when he quoted from the current offical OA Handbook and not from a handboook that was 43 years old?

[BulldogBlitz]

as a scout, i think i tried to wear both sashes one time to a court of honor. i definitely see the reasoning for "not" wearing the OA sash to a non-OA function such as a court of honor, but wouldn't have a problem with the very few scouts wearing their OA sash who don't have enough merit badges for a merit badge sash. the OA is after all the national honor society of campers and courts of honor are special occasions.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Bob White wrote "Didn't jet526 give the "official word from national" when he quoted from the current offical OA Handbook and not from a handboook that was 43 years old?"

 

BW is it beyond your ability to not ever wonder if perhaps there was a mistake in printing and editing. The OA releases periodic updates to correct and clearify actual policies and proceedures. I find it somewhat suspect that in all of the 50 pages that were edited out between the two different editions of the OA Handbook that I own that all of it was due to changes in policy. The first purpose of the OA is to "Honor those Scouts that best exlemplify the Oath and Law in their daily lives."

 

It seems to me that a court of honor is about the individual honors, acheivements, and advancement of each individual Scout in the unit. Court's of Honor are often attended by extended family members that may not be familiar with the program and insignia of Scouting. For Arrowmen to be wearing their OA sash makes the statement, IMHO, that there is something special about these Scouts. It should be a personal or unit choice. If it is not, which by the way is possible, there is likely a reason for the change. I for one would like to know what that or those reasons are and why.

[jmwalston]

I have to disagree, Brotherhood. To begin with the statement that maybe the handbook is in error is odd. To contact National because you want a concise, exact ruling sounds more like you want the OA sash to take precedence. It is an honor society, but the handbook is clear, the sash is worn when representing the OA for special services. A special service at a troop function would be, IMO, a call out or when asked to tell the troop about the OA and its services. I always assumed we wore flaps when active, and the dangle to denote membership, whether active or otherwise.

 

"For Arrowmen to be wearing their OA sash makes the statement, IMHO, that there is something special about these Scouts."

 

Wrong. It means that their troop thought very highly of them and honored them with selection. It does not imply elitism, which this statement does.

 

IMHO

[John-in-KC]

EagleSon, at his Eagle BOR, shared his MB sash with the board (they were sitting inside the flag mall in camp chairs at Theodore Naish Scout Reservation). He decided to wear his OA sash, as he also decided to wear his Mic-o-Say claws. Both indicated specific ethical values he wants to live by as an adult; he made a concious choice.

 

At his Eagle Court of Honor, he had a choice to wear his sash or his OA sash. Again, he chose his OA sash. His justification: The Arrow signifies the ethic of Cheerful Service. That it fits under the epaulet of the Venturing Uniform (he chose that over his khaki Scout suit) also made it easy to wear. You need a safety pin or Velcro to keep the sash on your shoulder.

 

Isn't the Grand Game about young people making ethical choices?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Bob White]

"BW is it beyond your ability to not ever wonder if perhaps there was a mistake in printing and editing. The OA releases periodic updates to correct and clearify actual policies and proceedures"

 

Brotherhoodwww, do you have any evidence that the information that jet526 shared from the current offical OA Handbook is incorrect in any way? If so please share, otherwise I do not see how or why you would not accept that information as accurate.

 

I have no trouble wondering about things. For instance, I wonder why you have such difficulty understanding and accepting something that is clearly explained in writing in a current BSA handbook.

 

I wonder why someone would use a resource that was 43 years old to show what the policy or procedure is today?

 

 

I wonder why you don't question the 43 year old information but you question the current information.

 

My ability to wonder seems as endless as the ability of some folks to do things that causes one to wonder.

 

 

 

[OAwww]

My lodge handbook (Tecumseh #65) says that the sash can be worn at COHs and OA functions.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Bob White, perhaps a careful rereading of what I posted will help. I am qouting two books the earliest being a 1977 copyright. le'see 2008-1977 does not equal 43 years! Never has never will.

 

If I had evidence that the current HB is incorrect then this discussion would be over. Not only do I not have any evidence I also do not know how may times the HB was revised. I was also not involved for a number of years and have no access to records of proceeding of the OA National Committee. I do know by experience that most manuals have omissions, errors and typo's that are discovered after press time and get fixed.

 

I do not have any difficulty reading what is currently published. I do believe that we, meaning Arrowmen took, and if we are currently active often take an Obligation a part of which is to uphold the traditions of the OA. To me the wearing of the sash is a tradition.

 

The two references mean vastly different things. To me that is a significant change hence my wonderment.

 

BTW Bob White your current position in the OA is what exactly and what honor do you hold? Are you an active dues paying member of your local Lodge? We all assume that you are not a youth and I am not a youth so what we really think does not really matter. Since I am currently an Adviser then it is prudent for me to know the correct policies and proceedures so as to be able to give the right answer when asked. RTM is not a very good answer to any question if one is living by the Oath and Law.

[gcnphkr]

The two references mean vastly different things. To me that is a significant change hence my wonderment.

How are they vastly different? As I pointed out in an earlier post, the 1977 handbook states that the sash is to be worn at special functions "only when members need to be identified for rendering special services". The only significant change is the removal of a parenthetical clause that resulted in an ambiguous pronoun.

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Because of the conjunction AND plus the phrase "such as courts of honor" which says that a court of honor is a special function. Do we wear the sash at OA functions because of the "need to be identified for rendering special services"? The final sentence in the quote explains when it is to be worn to a troop meeting, as is an OA election during a meeting. In the newer wording the sentence may seem to say that the arrowman must be rendering special service at a special Scouting activity to wear the sash, however the clause starting with when is not subordinate to the subject "Scouting activties" it is in addition to. If it was subordiane to then the comma would(should) not be used. English 101 folks! So it is either poorly written, improperly punctuated, or ambiguious. Whichever it may be is the question. Am I the only one that caught this?

[Bob White]

And BrotherhoodWWW as an Advisor in the OA do you routinely go to a 31 year old resource to get information onthe current program rather than use the current handbook.

 

The 43 year old resources I mentioned belonged not to you but to another poster, who is seems is almost an entire decade further behind in his information than the three decades you are behind.

 

I am curious what you feel my membership in the OA has to do with being able to tell that a current official resources is more accurate to use regarding today's program than a resource from 30 or 40 years ago?

[NeilLup]

From the current, official, on-line BSA insignia guide comes the answer to the original question:

 

"(OA sash is never worn on belt or with merit badge sash.)" and

 

"The OA sash is not worn with the merit badge sash."

 

http://www.scouting.org/media/insigniaguide/10L.aspx

[croushorn]

"It seems to me that a court of honor is about the individual honors, achievements, and advancement of each individual Scout in the unit. Court's of Honor are often attended by extended family members that may not be familiar with the program and insignia of Scouting. For Arrowmen to be wearing their OA sash makes the statement, IMHO, that there is something special about these Scouts. "

Wonderfully said, I wanted it printed again. Anyone that should come into one of my Troop's Eagle Courts of Honor to tell any of our Scouts, certainly the new Eagle, that he can't wear his OA Sash will politely but firmly be asked to sit down and be quiet or they can leave. There must be something more important to haggle over than this.