KNOTS

[HawkUH60]

Eagle

Roger, I know...the Bronze awards are the same size as standard military ribbons. My complaint is that BSA is 2 faced on the subject of wearing ribbons (specifically my award of the MOVSM). The insignia guide is somewhat contradictory to what is printed in the venturing hand book.

[Eagle92]

Got you. Yes I would like the BSA to go back to allowing military ribbons on the Scout uniform like they used to. One guy who always wore a vintage uniform always wore his ribbons per the uniform policy of that period. he was a hoot that I had the pleasure of being a scout under and working with on camp staff. I also would have loved it if one of my old council's exec. board members would have been allowed to wear his, esp. his MOH ribbon. Instead they named the Wilderness area of the reservation after him.

[Gold Winger]

If BSA allows military ribbons then folks will want KofC medals allowed and then VFW, AmLegion badges, followed shortly by Elks, Odd Fellows and Toastmasters. What's wrong with police awards? Finally the only organization that would have it's awards permitted on the Scout uniform will be the Aryan League and they'll really be upset because the Black Panthers get to wear theirs.

[Gold Winger]

If BSA allows military ribbons then folks will want KofC medals allowed and then VFW, AmLegion badges, followed shortly by Elks, Odd Fellows and Toastmasters. What's wrong with police awards? Finally the only organization that would have it's awards permitted on the Scout uniform will be the Aryan League and they'll really be upset because the Black Panthers get to wear theirs.

[HawkUH60]

LOL

thats kind of funny....there are a couple or female scouter who work at council who have a pink square knot for brest cancer awareness. Dont get me wrong, i am all for saving the "ta tas" but it just looks weird. They could accomplish the same thing by wearing a pin on there collar.

[prairie]

Pink kneckerchiefs would make a bolder statment.

[Eagle92]

All joking aside, I've seen photos of scouts at Kanderstag in pink. Glad I wasn't assigned there when I did the ECSP.

[HawkUH60]

Pink neckerchiefs would make a bold statement but at what point (as Gold Winger stated) do we go over board with non scouting stuff on the uniform? Not that I have seen that much but I do see alot of "Hangie downie things" and things worn around the neck that just junk up the uniform in my opinion could be better served in a display case. I got a few private issue awards I could wear but I don't because they are unfortunally frowned upon by national.

 

[HawkUH60]

I was told by a swiss scout at the international conference that the pink polos are for staff. The story goes, back in the day people would steal staffers shirts. So the staff decided to make a pink shirt to more or less keep the honest poeple honest. Staffers are only allowed to keep one shirt at the end of there tour and have to promas not to sell or give it away. One shirt was donated to the international conference (June 08 PTC) fund raiser and I think the national commissioner ended up paying $800 for it. Kind of an interesting story.

[Buffalo Skipper]

And just what is wrong with a pink neckerchief?

Our troop has one. Well sort of. The story goes, when our troop first chartered, one of the committee members owned an Italian restaurant, and as the troop needed neckerchiefs, he donated napkins for the troop's use (you know the kind, pink (red) and white checkerboard). That was in 1932 and we still use them to this day!

Every scout in our district for decades associates our troop with the neckerchief. Others have traditional or unique, custom madeneckerchiefs, but no other troop is recognized as immediately as we are.

John, if you like, I will bring mine along this weekend to show you. And,no you can't have one. Troop tradition says it must be earned. So sorry. See you Friday.

[HawkUH60]

LOL

Thanks Skipper. I have never been a big fan of neckerchiefs but i do like my troop 1 neckerchief! I love the stories behind them. Just like the ones associated with military unit patches and coins.

Good stuff.

 

[emb021]

"the Bronze awards are the same size as standard military ribbons. My complaint is that BSA is 2 faced on the subject of wearing ribbons (specifically my award of the MOVSM). The insignia guide is somewhat contradictory to what is printed in the venturing hand book."

 

There is nothing contradictory or two faced about it.

 

The BSA prohibites the wearing of MILITARY campaign ribbons. In other words, ribbons issued by the US Military.

 

The Bronze ribbons may be the same size, but they are NOT issued by the US military.

 

So none issue.

 

 

Not sure what you see as contradictory between the Insignia Guide and the Venturer Handbook. But I've found other problems with the Insignia Guide, so I wouldn't be surprised. Certainly when it comes to Sea Scout uniforming you need to go with what's in the Sea Scout Manual and not the Insignia Guide.

 

 

[HawkUH60]

Maybe I am not making myself clear enough. I fully understand what is written in the insignia guide. In my opinion there seems to be a negative overtone when there is talk of a military association with Scouting. As I stated I dont see a need to wear my military awards (except my MOVSM because scouting recognizes it with a knot).

I have a problem with what the insignia guide states in reference to military style ribbons (although some of the full size medals that BSA uses are very similar in size to military medals) and what the venturing hand book states on page 27 "colorful campaign style ribbons". To me that just seems somewhat contradictory.

 

My comment about sea scouting had nothing to do with awards

[emb021]

If your issue was with the BSA using military-style campaign ribbons, you should have said so. Personally, I don't care for them either. I would have preferred they had issued patches and pins for the Bronze and gold awards instead of the ribbons (patches for use on the green shirt, pins for non-uniform wear, as well as for those crew who opt not to use the green shirt and might prefer pins).

 

However, there IS a precedence for using such ribbons for non-military use. Before the use of the square knots, the BSA actually issued campaign style ribbons for some of the training awards. I'm not sure off the top of my head if they dropped them and went with the square knots during or after WWII. But it was done because of confusion with military-issued ribbons (as well as moving the BSA uniform from being seen as too military, which was was in the earlier years).

 

Police use various campaign-style ribbons to stand for the awards they are given. Police Explorers hence have been using campaign-style ribbons since the 80s or so, including a red-white-blue one for Eagle Scout. I think the Venturing people most likely picked up the idea from that. National Supply already had the means to make them, so they went with that.

 

 

 

[HawkUH60]

I dont mind the use of ribbons. As I was tring to state my issue is with the insignia guide being against the wear of ribbons but the venturing hand books stating the use of campaign style ribbons. Knots or ribbons. I like them both. I am a army officer and long time scouter. both are fine with me. my overall point was how BSA trys to disassociate itsself with the military. BP was after all a army officer.