KNOTS

[Bob White]

Certainly the best recogognition there is to helping others is the satisfaction we find in our own hearts. And a mature person has the ability to reward themselves without wanting reward form others.

 

But for centuries mankind has looked for ways to recognize others in their community for their positive contributions, whether it was a laurel wreath, a a medal on a ribbon, a beaded breast plate, or a piece of cloth. The purpose of the award isn't becasue the reeiver needs it, but because the givers of the award want the recipient to know that his or her efforts were noticed and appreciated.

 

So what if the piece of cloth means nothing to you, or you lack to the courtesy to be appreciative that others find you noteworty, that does not mean that the recognition should not be offered or should not exist.

 

If the act of being appreciated for one's efforts is so distasteful then do not go the the ceremony, do not accept the award, send it back if it arrives in the mail. But allow the giver of the recognition to still enjoy the act of appreciating others.

 

There is great value to any community in the pursuit of doing worthy things.

 

"Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition." Abraham Lincoln

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Yep, there's a fourth reason, I'm not the only freak out there that really enjoys the boys.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

Stosh,

 

Be careful where and when you make comments like that. :-)

 

For the record, I like my knots because I've gotten a 25% pay bump everytime I've received one. One more knot and I'll be able to afford a cool water sandwich.

 

 

 

 

[LCScouter]

Certainly the best recogognition there is to helping others is the satisfaction we find in our own hearts. And a mature person has the ability to reward themselves without wanting reward form others.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with above statement. To me, the BEST Leader Recognition is the reward, not the award.

 

 

So what if the piece of cloth means nothing to you, or you lack to the courtesy to be appreciative that others find you noteworty, that does not mean that the recognition should not be offered or should not exist.

 

Don't get me wrong, the square knots means a lot to me. I have a chest full of those embroidered pieces of cloth and each has a special meaning in my life --- Youth God and Country, Eagle, Training Awards, etc.

 

If the act of being appreciated for one's efforts is so distasteful then do not go the the ceremony, do not accept the award, send it back if it arrives in the mail. But allow the giver of the recognition to still enjoy the act of appreciating others.

 

"When you deny a Blessing by others, you deny a Blessing by God to those other individuals."

Believe me, when I receive such recognition, I am very thankful for that fact that someone thought I was worthy of that recognition.

 

 

There is great value to any community in the pursuit of doing worthy things.

 

That is why I am involved in Scouting.

 

[skeptic]

Not sure if this has been addressed to any extent recently. What are some of your thoughts on the semi-duplication of some knots for different programs, and having special knots for similar jobs in these programs. The ones I particularly do not really understand are the Scouter's Training and Scouter's Key. Why do they have separate knots for the cub part of the program, rather than simply wearing the cub device? This makes very little sense to me. Maybe I have just not been shown the logic.

 

 

[LCScouter]

skeptic

 

Years ago (pre 1988) it was like that. Cubmaster's earned their version of the Scouter's Key (Cubmaster's Key) and Den Mothers once earned the Scouter's Training Award.

However, since 1988, things have changed. National came out with a series of new awards geared specifically for Cub Leaders (the ones we have today). The awards were neck medals, but now the award is just the certificate. The square knots still represent the award (in this case, the certificates).

 

The device pins were introduced to show which program a Scouter earned the Award --- for example: I earned the Scouter's Key when I was a Scoutmaster back in the late 70's (Scouting device), as Cubmaster back in the mid 80's (cub device), and as Commissioner (just recently). I have 3 devices on my Scouter's Key; but only ONE square knot.

 

Also, the positions of Den Leader is different than that of an Assistant Scoutmaster. The SA is a support role in the troop, assisting the Scoutmaster. The DL is the primary leader for the Den. Different roles, different requirements, different awards, different square knots.

 

Maybe it will go back to the more simplified way of doing things, who knows?

[Bob White]

LC Scouter is correct. But remember when he says 'National did it' that "natonal" like council, is mostly made of volunteers.

 

It was volunteer committees within the Cub Scout Division who decided that it would be a good thing to have separate recognitions for Cub Pack volunteers. So Cub volunteers created recognitions for Cub volunteers.

 

As LC Scouter points out that may or may not change in the future. Awards come and go all the time in the BSA. But for today it is what it is, tomorrow...who knows.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[HawkUH60]

OK, Been to PTC Seen the PTC knot....seen the NESA life member knot, even the new commisioners knot but what the heck is a "Speakers bureau" knot?? take a look at item 140261133288 on ebay. What is the black and gold knot?

BSA is getting so many knots they are going to need a Knot Division to keep track of them all.

[fgoodwin]

"Speaker Bureau"??

 

I have no idea -- you should probably ask the seller, assuming he knows . . .

[HawkUH60]

seller didnt know

[GaHillBilly]

As some one new to Scouting, my view of Scouting knots has been shaped by my PERSONAL & LOCAL --- and I understand that others may not share this --- experience, which has been that there is a direct correlation between the number of knots, and the uselessness of the leader.

 

It works the other way, too. The guys I've found most helpful & knowledgeable had worn but mostly bare uniform shirts.

 

I'm now eligible for at least one, and maybe two knots, as well as some other patches. But, I'm leaving them off. At least in my local area, they seem to signify ineffectiveness.

 

GaHillBilly

 

[Bob White]

When you say they are ineffective...just what sort of "effectiveness" were you expecting? The recognitions are, for the most part, either earned based on requirements, or presented by others to honor or recognize work done in the past or over a long period of time.

 

Just because someone was not helpful to you does not mean that they were not helpful to others in the area of the BSA programs that the recognition is presented by.

 

I think you are assigning characteristics to the recognitions and to the recipients that they were never meant to represent.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[GNX Guy]

Kinda old news. I posted this almost a year ago.

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=170893#id_170893

[scoutldr]

Just a bit of clarification...in the Boy Scout program, it's the "Scoutmaster's Key", not Scouter's Key. It is for Scoutmasters only. All others in the troop are eligible for the "Scouter's Training Award".

 

The "Key" can also be earned by Venturing Advisors, District Committee members and Commissioners.

 

In the early 80's, the Cub Scouter Award, Den Leader Awards and Cubmaster Award were introduced (among others). Cubmasters were no longer eligible for the "Key".(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[GaHillBilly]

BW,

 

I wasn't -- and did not -- question the legitimacy of their knots. I'm sure they met the requirements, which for the many of the knots means having worked with various levels of Cub Scouts for a long time.

 

But, the guys I've seen with really successful troops behind them, and the guys I've seen with significant outdoor skills didn't wear lots of knots.

 

Your milage may vary: it's entirely possible that in your area the truly great SM's wear lots of knots, and salivate over the various Silver knots. It may even be that many good SM's here do so as well, since I don't even begin to know them all.

 

But it remains true that, in the small sample of Scouters I've met in my brief tenure as a Scouter myself, knots have proved to be a negative indicator of overall Scouting skill, not a positive one. To put it another way, if there are two parallel sessions at an OLS, I'll gravitate toward the guy with fewer knots!

 

GaHillBilly