Uniform question

[Trailblazermom]

I was wondering if someone can tell me where to find the "rules" about a uniform question I have. We have a scout in our troop who wears a vintage BSA garrison hat with his scout uniform. The ASM said its against the uniform rules to mix an old uniform part with the current. He said you have to wear the whole vintage uniform not just the hat and that you can't mix old with new. I have looked and can't find an answer in the insignia guide or by searching here.

Anyone know where I might find out what the correct answer is? Thank very much

Trailblazermom

[Boris Badenov]

This website might be of interest...

 

http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/uniform.htm

 

[evmori]

Old can be mixed with new.

[Gold Winger]

I believe that the PLC has to sign off on the idea. The other option is to tell the ASM to chill and be thankful the kid wants to wear the uniform.

 

For the record, I wear a beret sometimes and a garrison cap at others.

 

 

[FScouter]

"Anyone know where I might find out what the correct answer is?"

 

So far we have 3 personal opinions with no BSA citation anyone else can refer to.

 

Mike Waltons opinion makes reference to some internal memos and magazine blurbs from 20+ years ago

Ed states his opinion as fact.

GW qualifies his statement with I believe

 

The current uniform inspection sheet doesnt comment on old parts but does say All troop members must wear the headgear chosen by vote of the troop. Similarly, regarding belts and buckles it appears that any Scout belt or buckle is OK saying of your choice, worn only if voted by the troop/team. Members wear one of the belts chosen by vote of the troop/team. That supports GWs comment.

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/adults/~/media/legacy/assets/forms/34283.pdf.ashx

 

Its clear from the lack of direction in the Insignia Guide or other books that BSA has not made a big issue about wearing old uniform parts or mixing with current parts. The new brochure about the upcoming uniform indicates the new parts may be combined with current parts: Transitional pieces to mix and match with your current uniform.

 

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/info.aspx?page=bsauniformmain

 

My personal opinion is that any uniform looks best when worn complete, without mixing and matching old pieces. I would not forbid a boy from wearing an old garrison hat. The boy sees it as cool and shows he has an interest in Scouting history.

[jr56]

If it makes him want to wear his uniform, let him do it.

[Trailblazermom]

Thank you all for your replies. I am going to bring this to the ASM's attention and hopefully he will stop telling this scout to stop wearing the hat. Also all the boys in the troop think this hat is the coolest and all want one. So knowing now that the headgrear is by troop vote we may soon have all the scouts wearing one.

YIS

Trailblazermom

[insanescouter]

I don't know of any problems with it, however another place you check is the insignia guide...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[Sprite]

Your ASM reminds me of one ours, a former Marine. It seems that sometimes he forgets about the differences between Marines and scouts.

 

Sounds like the scout may be taking pride in his headgear and could probably tell more of the history behind it and scouting at the time. Also it does give him an opportunity to be little bit different. However--all scouts are a little bit different from the general population.

Vive le difference!!

[allangr1024]

Wow, excitement about wearing the garrison cap. When I was a scout in the 70's, we would not touch them with a 10 foot pole, except that we had to have them to be in complete uniform in our troop. Most wanted a cool ball cap, or a cowboy hat. The SPL got to wear a campaign hat as a symbol of his authority. We just folded the garrison caps over out belts and that was that. Times have changed.

[Gunny2862]

We just had some Scouts obtain some garrison caps from trading blankets at a trading post event. They wanted to wear them so bad they traded for an extra one to "influence" the Scoutmaster into letting them wear them...

 

The Scoutmaster wasn't influenced and really thought it was a PLC decision but, the PLC were the ones who traded for the hats. Machiavellian Scouts at times.

 

And anything that increases the amount, frequency and correctness of uniform wear is encouraged in this part of the woods. At this point if the hat were wrong I'd still let it go if it increased wearing the rest of the uniform.

 

By the way, the new SPL held a uniform class at the TLT! Progress!

[CA_Scouter]

The correct answer is:

 

Your ASM has way too much time on his hands.

 

 

 

[Stosh]

My boys have taken to wearing the old mule-eared pocketed pants with red piping because they can be buttoned shut and "look cool" according to the boys. I adhere to the rule that anyone standing around with their hands in their pockets is really volunteering for the next available work assignment. With the bottons, it reminds them to keep their hands out of their pockets too. :^)

 

In order to promote the patrol-method rather than troop-method, the boys decide on uniform standards as a patrol. They do, however, hold a second standard for the Troop on formal occasions. That means many of my boys carry two neckerchiefs at this point, one for troop activities and one for patrol activities.

 

Stosh

[MarkS]

I'm an ASM in my troop. I can have lots of opinions but in a nutshell, I have absolutely no say on approving troop policies. ASMs have to learn that they can offer no more than suggestions to the TC, SM, and PLC. After that, it's a matter of convincing them that you have a good, value added idea.

[Eamonn]

I don't claim to be a "Uniform Expert".

In fact most of the time I'm happy to take plenty of No Notice about what people decide to wear or not wear.

But even a dummy like myself can see a great number of mistakes on the http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/uniform.htm web page.

Now that the insignia guide is on the BSA site, my hope is that Mike Walton will remove this page and stop providing information which is just wrong.

Eamonn.