The new uniform.

[RememberSchiff]

Yeah and bring back the City/Town and State strips! Too bad they did not take the 60's style and color, use the wicking fabrics, and manufacture in the US. But then I want full size square neckerchief, over the collar, with a scout-carved slide too. Think I will stick with my old uniform.

 

As to the shirt-tail problem, here's a solution, though gender specific I think, that airs next week

 

http://www.nbc.com/Deal_or_No_Deal/video/#mea=257423

 

Maybe that's a new format for Round Table too?

 

 

[Bob White]

Actually they were called "Community Strips" and they existed because the community was the council. Then as communities merged into larer councils they became council patches. In some areas where the council population is wide spread, sometines encompassing an entire state, it would not be cost effective for the members to have community strips, customized to each town within the council. Besides the purpose of the patch is not to show the town the scout lived in but the Council in which he or she represents.

 

If you think there is a clamor because of something as benign as a sleeve pocket, imagine the tempest that would result if you tried to do away with decorative council shoulder patches or OA pocket flaps.

 

The reason the emblems are not made of the same material as the shirt is that they would be difficut to embellish with either embroider or silk screen and they would be even more difficult to sew on.

 

Be careful thinking that was old was better, steel buttons held on by cotter pins that had to be removed and then reattached before and after washing, colored ribbons to represent patrols that were easily damaged or lost, emblems that were made of felt, merit badges with unfinished edges that had to be hemmed over when sewing, knee socks with garter belts..ahh the good old days. They weren't nearly as good as some people would lead you to believe.

 

Some of us posted in the past that the people who complained about the current uniform would complain about whatever the new would be as well. It hasn't even hit the market and those same people are complaining about it. That proves the real problem is not the uniform.

 

Let's try to remember what the purpose of the uniform is in scouting.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Bob, I'm calling you on the Community strips.

 

From my own collection, the San Fernando Valley Council had the following strips available:

 

Reseda

Woodland Hills

Canoga Park

Van Nuys

Chatsworth

San Fernando

Burbank

 

As of 1960, 12 years before merger, those were, except Burbank and San Fernando, all community suburbs within the City of Los Angeles.

 

I got my uniforms at JC Penney's, Reseda

 

So it wasn't just the community where the council operated ...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[RememberSchiff]

He's right about the name "Community strip", but the "community" was the location of your unit. So in the 60's, you could be a member of Troop 154 with community strips (two one town and one state) "Pennsauken" and "N.J.". Councils in my area were organized by counties. In this example Camden County Council, no council designation was worn then. With scouting on the decline today, I think it is now the South Jersey Council which covers multiple counties.

 

I think more are interested in what town and state you are from than what council, much better conversation starters. For me, the council patches after awhile seem generic and there is always someone who is pushing a NEW council patch, because newer is better.

[Bob White]

In my area as a youth scout in the 60's it was as described. Still the fact is that you are a member of the councuil regardless of what towmn within the council you live. It simply is not cost effective to have a different shoulder strip for every town that has a unit.

[Gold Winger]

With modern on-demand custom embroidery, you can make strips for any town as simply as you make custom camporee patches.

 

I know that I've seen at least ten different old community strips for my council. Considering that my council covers 17 counties, it would silly to say that the community is the council

 

Even when I was a kid, my council covered a third of the state and we had community strips for all of the towns. It wasn't that big of a deal.

 

 

[Bob White]

Ease of production is not the issue, higher costs due to lower production quantities, higher cost do to lower demand, higher cost do to inventory control. You would not be doing the pocket book of the volunteers any favor by going from a few hundred council strips to thousands of different community strips.

[Gold Winger]

Let's see. . . it's about a buck and a half or two bucks for a custom made unit number. It's about $2.50 for a custom camporee patch. A stock CSP starts at $4 and goes up from there. Don't see how a community strip would be more than a couple bucks.

 

How would it work? Mr. CC goes to the Scout Shop and says, "I need 20 community strips that say, "West Slobovia.'" Pays and goes home.

 

In bigger areas like Los Angeles, the shop could have them ready and waiting. In New York, they'd probably want strips that say "Youkers," "Bronx," "Astoria," etc.

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Wilton125]

How does the BSA test these new uniforms before they are made official?

 

Over the past few fears we have seen the introduction of new pants ("switchbacks") and a new semi-official shirt ("Acton Shirt").

 

So I am very curious the rational for:

 

- Changing the color of the switchback pants - Why?

- Changing the design of the action shirt to include sholder straps and the left sleeve pocket - Why?

- Changing the accent color from red to green - Why?

- Changing the belt on the new switcback pants - Why?

 

- Finally, Why was the neckerchief size reduced to a size that really makes it useless?

 

When the US military changes it's uniform, the changes are field tested and communicated to the personnel. I am really disappointed that BSA National staff does not feel that this type of testing and communication is important in this day and age.

 

The folks on the forum seem to be long time Scouters that may have some keein insights that will help me understand this question.

 

[Bob White]

You erroneously assume that that there is no volunteer involvement in the process and that only professional staff is involved. Next you assume incorrectly that no field tests were done simply because you were not informed of the results.

 

Most program related changes in the BSA are the results of work done by Volunteer committees. the Deatails of which are implented by the national staff.

 

The BSA had a committee that has spent years working on the new design. At philmont in 2003 we were told of some of the testing going on with the zip off pants and trying materials such as Supplex nylon.

 

The BSA also looked at feedback and comments from volunteers across the country regarding changes they would like in the uniform.

 

As for the size of the neckerchief, the neckerchief has not been a functional size for anything other than a decoration for over 40 years, now is an unusual tinme to bring it up.

 

Understand that one could possible design a uniform that would please the over 1.2 million people that wear the Boy Scout Uniform. Even if they managed to please 90% of us that would still leave 120 thousand people whining about it.

 

I would hope that volunteers understood that we wear the uniform, not because it some brilliant piece of fashion, but because it represents that we are joint members of a specific organization whose values we accept and emulate.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

I would guess the interpreter strips are probably the least used items for a uniform yet they are still available. And I'm sure the cost to produce them is way under what we pay. The community strips would be the same thing. The set up cost is where the expense is. The reproduction cost is minimal & the profit would be good. I say bring 'em back!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Wilton125]

It is good to hear that the BSA field tests these uniforms before they are adopted.

 

Is information on these field tests available to the BSA membership?

If so, where can it be found?

 

Is there any reason that the feedback of these tests needs to be a "secret"?

 

[Gold Winger]

"The set up cost is where the expense is. "

 

With modern technology, that shouldn't even be the problem. There are no complex designs to lay-out, letters are letters.

 

A few years back, my umpire association gave us new caps with the name of the organization on the front. I didn't wear adjustable caps for umpiring so I took my own New Era umpire cap to the kiosk at the mall that did cap embroidery. I looked at his available fonts, picked and in five minutes I had a cap with our name on it.

 

Okay, maybe you're right. The cost of the person to type the name into the computer would be far more than the cost of the thread and cloth.

 

[Bob White]

Wilton

 

God so loved the earth that he sent as saviour his only Son....and not a sub committee.

 

 

Can you image a uniform subcommittee of 1.2 million people? It simply is not practical. Too many cooks spoil the broth immediately comes to mind.

 

As I said even if 9 out of 10 people who where this uniform like it that will still leaves thousands whining about it. NO ONE can design a uniform that will please everyone.

 

It is so funny that people talk about how great the pre-1981 uniform was but they forget that it was not the perfect uniform. Its not that there was no one who disliked it ...there just was no Internet at the time, so the disgruntled across the country could not rally in print to complain about it to each other.

 

There is probably the same percentage of people who dislike the current uniform as the one before it, it's just that technology now allowed them a larger audience. As proof we already have people complaining about a uniform they have only seen a few pictures of. In fact these same people were complaining about the uniform before it was ever even seen.

 

That alone shows you that it is not the uniform it is simply the nature of some people to complain.

 

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Wilton, what we need to remember is that the new uniform comes from Irving, Texas and like things that come from Vatican City, it is by definition, it is perfect and infalible. To question the design of the new uniform makes us heritic Scouters and we are in danger of falling from Grace and we may wind up buring in the eternal campfire.